How Can a Good Person Have an Affair? With Kristina Joy

Lora Cheadle (00:01.332)
We talk so much about the feelings of shame and being trapped. Whether that is us feeling ashamed and being sucked in and being trapped by actions we've taken that we're not proud of. You know, whether it's revenge cheating, being unfaithful on our own, or just lashing out at our partner in a way that we

Come back to later and think, my gosh, that was not me. That was not me. Or whether we're looking at our partner and we're saying, How could you do this to me? You are such a good person, and what's wrong with you? That's what we're gonna talk about today. We're gonna talk about the reality of being stuck in an affair. My guest today is Christina Joy, and she is incredible and powerful.

And I want you to listen to this conversation because yes, she herself was trapped in an affair. She was the unfaithful person. And she also at that same time was and is and saw herself as a good Christian woman. And I think sometimes understanding that dichotomy can be hard.

And we're going to have a really honest conversation in service of love, joy, faith, and healing. So welcome to the show, Christina. I'm really looking forward to our conversation.

Kristina (01:39.772)
Yes, thank you so much. And yeah, that was the perfect introduction to say, you know, I came from a good, solid background and while I take responsibility for my choices, that I I made intentional choices all along this journey, but there were still some days I looked up and I said, How in the world did I get here? This this does not feel like me. Now what do I do? So yeah, you you said it exactly right.

Lora Cheadle (02:07.563)
Yeah, yeah. And isn't that the truth? It's like I we all have that experience. And I think sometimes when we are the betrayed partner, it's easy, speaking for me, but also for people that I've worked with, it's easy to get on our high horse. I would never do that. I would manage my problems in a completely different way, and I would never hurt the person that I love. And really in reality, that's not true.

Yeah, and that's hard to admit. That's hard to admit, but it it's true. And I I look back on my own near misses paths that I could have very easily gone down. And yeah, it brings shame, it brings guilt, it brings embarrassment. So and yet still I am also a good person at the same time, and I can be forgiven and loved and worthy, despite any of them. So let's start just with your journey. How

Kristina (02:37.794)
Yeah.

Lora Cheadle (03:07.009)
How did ya how did you get here?

Kristina (03:09.083)
Mm-hmm. How did I get here of all places? Yeah. So my journey, well, let me say this. When I talk about my affair season, it really encompasses about seven years. Now I've had multiple years of healing since then, but but the the thick of the story w was about seven years. And so going back to the I don't know, the dates, twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, what happened first of all, what was happening in my marriage was

Lora Cheadle (03:11.574)
Right.

Kristina (03:39.529)
That we were we were still kind of newlyweds, you know, s it was early on in our marriage and I quickly realized that we we had disconnection, emotional disconnection, even physically at one point we were both working like a job and a half. You know, he was working a full time job plus coaching at a high school, and I was working a full time job as a teacher and

Because we didn't have financial control over our budget, I felt like I needed, you know, a part-time job of of waitressing at a restaurant. And so we were both busy just working opposite schedules. And so I tell you that because wow, I I would have made different choices from day number one i if I hadn't been able to see that and and speak up about how important our our connection and our time together was. So that was one flag that I didn't see or I avoided looking at.

Lora Cheadle (04:34.903)
Mm-hmm.

Kristina (04:35.48)
Then in the midst of all of that, we ended up having two miscarriages of babies. And so I tell you about emotional disconnection because I, while I would have said that I was a mature person, I didn't know how to handle those. I remember, like I said, I was teaching, and after one doctor's appointment, I think the doctor's appointment where I found out that I miscarried, I went back into school and sat with my principal.

And she said, Hey, do you need a couple days off? Take some time. And I was like, No, I'm fine. Like, my body's fine. I can keep working. And I just did not know how to grieve. I thought, this is a bummer that this happened. Let me just keep going. And of course, I would cry if I was sad. Like I I wasn't trying to stuff anything, but I just didn't know how to grieve. And I didn't know how to grieve intimately with my husband.

Lora Cheadle (05:25.293)
Mm-hmm.

Lora Cheadle (05:29.547)
Yes.

Kristina (05:31.889)
Yes, d doing it together, the those intimate moments of of connection, and and it just wasn't there. And and again, like you started the episode with, like, I would have said we were both good people. There there was there was nothing wrong, but we were not figuring out that teamwork, that community, the intimacy. And so right on the heels of both of those, I handled both of those miscarriages differently. But looking back

a after I kind of came out of this, I said, I wonder if I had some postpartum depression that I didn't realize. And I had never struggled with a depression or anxiety before. But I remember in that season saying, I just feel weird. Like I feel out of character. I don't feel like myself. One time I said, I feel like I'm standing in the eye of a tornado. Like my whole world is sp spinning around me and I'm just frozen. I'm stuck.

Lora Cheadle (06:19.308)
Mm-hmm.

Kristina (06:30.682)
and and I didn't know what that meant. That was the only way I could describe it. And so what happened then was I said I was working part-time as waitressing at a restaurant, and just one thing led to another. things just snowballed with me meeting people and hanging out with people. And it was kind of a friend of a friend, and ended up getting involved with this guy. And so I also want to just pause there to call out, like it wasn't like this.

just accidentally happened as a one night stand. it was hanging out with someone that I probably shouldn't have and hanging out with someone again who introduced me to more friends and and all along it was like, I don't know, but I just kept going. And so that snowball just kept getting bigger and bigger. And so finally, yeah, I finally I did cross all those lines, you know, emotionally, physically, all of that. And and never told a single person.

Lora Cheadle (07:01.964)
Right.

Lora Cheadle (07:27.755)
Right.

Kristina (07:27.798)
obviously not my husband, but no friends. Like I I knew, I knew this was something that I was gonna keep close to myself. And when you said earlier this idea of feeling trapped, I I fully recognize that from some from someone on the side that has been betrayed, you're thinking, like, how in the world were you stuck? Like you made that choice every single time you contacted that person. Yes. And

Lora Cheadle (07:57.558)
Mm-hmm.

Kristina (07:57.575)
There were many days where I said, because again, we're talking like seven years up and down roller coaster, but seven years of me saying, Hey, next time this happens, I'll block his number. Next time this happens, I'm walking away. Next time this happens, even if he tries to call me, I won't answer. And would you believe again and again and again, I walked right back into it. knowing that my marriage was struggling, and I I was trying to get help.

weekly li like I I was weak in it. but but I I was trying. You know, we would go to a marriage conference and we would try to be around friends and mentors. So I was trying, but I had one foot in, one foot out. Because it was like, well I'll I'll say I'm putting an effort in my marriage, but at the same time, this is the guy that makes me feel safe and loved and cherished. And I couldn't name any of those things while I was in it.

Lora Cheadle (08:39.829)
Mm-hmm.

Kristina (08:52.55)
It's been all of my healing work afterwards to say, that's what I was missing. That's that's why I kept going back to him. He was he was filling these needs for me. And so yeah, as I as I work with women today, I talk a lot about not not forcing ourselves with like white knuckling or just just the willpower.

Lora Cheadle (09:03.65)
Mm-hmm.

Kristina (09:18.854)
I I would like to say I have some of the strongest willpower there is. Like I when I make a decision, I go for it. But this thing had a hold on me like nothing else. And so then you talk about the shame. again, couldn't name it at the time, but my goodness, I cannot talk to anybody about this. I was involved in in a good church at that time. And I remember thinking through, these are such lovely women, just such lovely ladies. And

Lora Cheadle (09:31.383)
Yeah.

Kristina (09:47.537)
And I went through the list of this one or this one. I was like, No, I can't share my story with them. Either either they're not gonna know what to do with me, and there's gonna be awkward silence when I admit what just happened, or they're just gonna come out and say, Well, you need to block them and move on and be done, and tell your husband, and I was not ready for that. So I made this all up in my head, but that shame kept me from talking to anybody. And so I stayed by myself, which was the worst thing in that I could have done.

Lora Cheadle (09:57.57)
Right.

Lora Cheadle (10:17.133)
Mm-hmm.

Kristina (10:17.14)
And and I just was was dealing with it over over time. So fast forward now, October of twenty twenty-two. I had four children at this time. I still still have four four young children. And so life was continuing while I was living this this hidden life as well. I was also finishing my master's degree, I was continuing in education.

I was finishing my master's and I also had some network marketing on the side. So I was I was busy, staying busy just with my my own stuff. And I was invited to go on a retreat that was specifically for network marketing. Just how can I build my business? And and I was just learning from some kind of master coaches that way. And I remember going to this retreat, I had gotten to know these coaches online, listen to their podcasts, and I said to myself, these feel like safe women.

for me it was important. I knew they loved Jesus and I knew that they were safe and and that they would have wisdom. Whatever I brought to them, I thought we'd be able to just have a good conversation. And and actually let me mention this too. Up until that point, I never used the word affair. I was in counseling and I always talked about my friend, my friend that I'm worried about or struggling with.

Lora Cheadle (11:17.419)
Yes. Yes.

Lora Cheadle (11:37.046)
Yeah.

Kristina (11:40.945)
I knew I knew what I was doing was wrong, but I never took time to label it. It was just this situation that was distracting me. And so I I go to this retreat and I think, well, I don't know how many other people are going. If I have a minute to talk to these coaches, I'll just ask them a question, you know, about this situation that's distracting me from building my business. Well, once you know, I walk into this beach house in Florida.

Lora Cheadle (11:46.956)
Yeah.

Lora Cheadle (11:50.476)
Yeah.

Kristina (12:09.044)
And so excited to be there. And and I walk in and there were the two coaches that were hosting, there was another coach that was the guest speaker for the weekend, and then a girl that lived in the area and had picked me up from the airport. And so I walk in and I think, well, maybe this is my chance. Like nobody else is here. I have a minute. Let me ask them this question. let me tell you the end of the story. I was the only paying client to go on that retreat, which in my opinion was

Lora Cheadle (12:35.127)
My goodness.

Kristina (12:36.594)
was it was God's rescue mission for me. Like God put that together to say, Christina's here or by herself in very yes, very like safe and good hands. Yeah, this is good. So anyway, so I walk into the house and I think, okay, let me let me just start the conversation. I don't even remember what I said, but it just all came pouring out of me of like, I have this thing that's going on. And and I remember the one coach, she she was getting ready with her notepad to do like business strategy.

Lora Cheadle (12:43.625)
Exactly.

Kristina (13:05.596)
And she set the notepad to the side and she said, I I think we have some other things to talk about first. And I was like, really? Like, really? We have more important things to talk about. Yes, I have no idea. No idea. So yeah, so lots of tears, lots of good conversation. yeah, I tell people I went for business and I actually got Jesus instead. again, I grew up in church, loved said I loved Jesus my whole life, but this was the next level of

Lora Cheadle (13:12.525)
Huh We do? What could that be?

Kristina (13:35.783)
Okay, I can admit that what I'm doing is wrong and it it will end now. And and man, Jesus still loves me in the midst of that. That was the whole thing, was that these ladies held my story so tenderly with so much love and compassion. There was zero judgment, zero shame. And so really, yeah, that weekend changed my life. You know, I I came back, the night that I flew back home, I did tell my husband that I

had had an affair and what are we gonna do now? And so then that pro propelled us more into a a healing journey. But but that's how I got where I am today.

Lora Cheadle (14:15.819)
Yeah. Thank you first for sharing that. And what I particularly appreciate is the moments where you would say, I couldn't name that then. I didn't know that then. Because for anybody who is listening to this show and is right at D-Day, right at the start of this, who is sobbing to their spouse, just tell me why. And their spouse is saying, I don't know why.

They don't know why. Like honestly, this is a process, this is a journey, and the things that you named so beautifully aren't things that we are capable of naming early on, because if we were capable of naming them early on, we wouldn't be in this situation.

You know, and I also really I am no judgment. And so I I hold that space for somebody with no I mean it just makes me want to cry, but with the compassion, with the judgment, with that tenderness, to have that sp safe space to come to admit and to say and to be human and honest and then to say, and what are we gonna do next? Help me get there.

There is so much beauty, there is so much healing, there is so much growth, there is so much power. And I am so glad that you were able to have that healing. And whatever your husband's response would have been, or listeners, whatever your sp response is, how can we just move forward in that space of non-judgment, in that space of compassion, in that space of let me hear and understand? And you know.

Maybe we decide to separate, maybe we s decide to stay together, but what matters is telling the truth.

Kristina (16:11.06)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Exactly. And and I knew that night when I went home and and told him, hey, I I need to be honest with you. It was voluntary. Like he he still knew nothing. I knew that I was setting off a bomb in our life that night. And I knew I needed to be honest. And I knew that we were not in a place to make any decisions. I was not going out that night and saying, Well, let's get the divorce papers. Like that I I knew that was not the place. And

Lora Cheadle (16:21.445)
yeah.

Kristina (16:39.858)
Like you just described it in that moment, there were still things I didn't know. There was still some healing I needed to do. And so there was definitely that that season of healing myself, you know, hope hoping him like he that he would get on his healing journey. And I knew that if there was going to be a a marriage decision about staying or going, I wanted that to be made from a grounded, clear place, not

I almost said at the moment of impact, 'cause I often compare this like to a car accident. You you both were in the car, you both got injured, and so there's there's things that you both need to do, but let's not make any rash decisions right then and there.

Lora Cheadle (17:12.574)
It is.

Lora Cheadle (17:22.005)
Yeah, exactly. And and thank you for saying that because the the four steps that I guide women through and men and whichever side that you're on, first thing is you have to regulate yourself. You've got to figure some of the things out for yourself. And you had that space with this retreat. You had that space to start to do that. And then your husband needed his space. And you still even to this day, we all need to regulate ourselves first.

My second step is reorient. Now that we have clarity what's really going on, I have to reorient myself to this reality. And that takes some time. That third step is reconnect. I have to reconnect to who I know myself to be, to my own truth, God, source, spirit, whatever it is. I need to reconnect. And then that fourth step is recoreograph. And that might mean making a decision.

I need we're gonna give this marriage six months and see what happens. We're gonna do marriage counseling. Nope. I I need to move on. But those decisions don't happen right away. And I think that's a space where we can get ourselves in trouble when we think this happened and I have to decide and I have to move on. We don't know yet.

Kristina (18:41.19)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I love o over the course of those four things you mentioned, I love that you do bring out there's there's the time for the individual healing and and work and there's the time for the marriage work. I I don't know if you have s sensed this, but a lot of the women that I talk to are are coming to me and saying, Yeah, you know, we were told to to go see marriage go see a marriage therapist, like start marriage counseling right away. And

And I know that's the common answer because it's like nobody knows that there's other options. and so yeah, can can it work? Is there some benefit? Yes, absolutely. I I love my counselor friends. And at the same time, I'm always going back to, okay, marriage is great, but do you both have some individual work to do too? And again, I couldn't name it then, but I just had this sense with my husband of because he said, Well, let's go let's get in counseling. I said, Well, I'm I've been doing my own personal counseling.

Lora Cheadle (19:13.054)
Right.

Kristina (19:37.865)
How about you? Because I just knew again I needed to be honest. I needed to practice that authenticity that I had been hiding for so long. Isn't it funny? Somebody who lived in hiding and secrecy suddenly has a core value of honesty and integrity. because I know how important that is now. And and so I just had this internal, and now I'd call it intuition.

Lora Cheadle (19:39.319)
Mm.

Lora Cheadle (19:55.852)
Yes.

Kristina (20:03.752)
To say, I need to practice getting into my counselor and speaking freely. Like if if I need to like run you under the bus, I need to be free to do that without the fear of hurting you in any kind of way. but but yeah, I I need my space to be able to navigate some of that. And and again, like to wrestle through the shame, the shame that he may not understand. I'm trying to remember, my husband and I did talk about that at one point. He

I mean I think he talked about his shame, which was new for me 'cause I thought, why do you have shame? I'm the one that that did this. And and it was shame of like what happened to our story and our marriage and and and you. Like mi if you feel like my stepping out says something about you, that's an option. so the shame piece and there was another piece I was thinking, the the grief. There's

Lora Cheadle (20:36.055)
Yeah.

Lora Cheadle (20:39.882)
Right.

Kristina (21:00.072)
Every woman that I talk to, j just about every woman, is is coming saying, Man, like I miss this guy. And yeah, I recognize even for your audience that that might sting a little to say, Why would the person that stepped out, why would they miss that person? Don't they love me, their spouse? but at least for the woman, I mean, we know we're we are more emotional and and connected. And and so a lot of times it

Lora Cheadle (21:07.191)
Mm-hmm.

Lora Cheadle (21:24.589)
Yeah.

Kristina (21:27.002)
it feels like that person became our friend or our best friend. And and so there's this term called disenfranchised grief that man, I there were days I cried in the shower, like, I just miss him. I miss our friendship. Like not even like the physical sexual part. Just I miss the person. But I can't take that to my husband. I for him to see me crying about missing this person, like that that would hurt him so bad. And so

Lora Cheadle (21:43.917)
Right.

Kristina (21:54.821)
Again, I I needed my space to wrestle through all of that, to heal from all of that, without even shame or judgment in my marriage.

Lora Cheadle (22:03.253)
Right, right. And both partners are going through a very parallel journeys, but you're absolutely right. There's parts how do we grieve intimately and protect our partner at the same time? And that's a tough one. And while I firmly believe that the betrayed partner does

go first. They do have the priority because they have been harmed in what they thought was a safe relationship. While I think that is a priority, I also think so often we dismiss the journey of the betrayer and we villainize them. And it's not about being a bad person. It's not about all of the things that we think that it's about. Because

And maybe I'm putting words in your mouth, but I don't think I am. But you can correct me. You stepped out because you were in pain, and because this person fulfilled a need. And it's not that your spouse was lacking, it's that you didn't know how to get there. And you can love your partner and

Kristina (22:59.304)
Yeah, yeah.

Lora Cheadle (23:20.553)
appreciate what the affair partner does for you all in the same breath. And you can miss them because they allowed you access to a piece of you that you had trouble accessing in a different relationship.

Kristina (23:34.973)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, I I wouldn't change anything. You said again, the women that I work with, the most common word that I hear is alive. Like I just felt so alive over here. And so for whatever reason that things are were off maybe in the marriage, you know, and I've worked with women that have said, My marriage is great. Why did I step out? I I have no complaints about my marriage. My husband is a good man. and so I

Lora Cheadle (23:44.258)
Yeah.

Kristina (24:03.42)
I'm also just reminded it the story may not be about the affair partner or about your spouse. It's really just you. You know, and we can we can do all the the counseling and coaching of like, let's go back and look at your past and let's talk about your dad wounds. That you know, like there's always an explanation. But yeah, no matter the reason, it's I think the the most important part is.

Lora Cheadle (24:22.57)
Right.

Kristina (24:30.644)
Can I just look in the mirror and be honest about what got me here? And am I committed to to being done with the life of secrecy and and also shedding shame? So can I can I come into yeah, honesty, integrity, authenticity? And so I I'm not gonna tell you, you know, you you have to cut off contact with this guy and you have to stay in your marriage. Let let's figure that out. Like I just want you to be.

Lora Cheadle (24:44.298)
Mm-hmm.

Kristina (24:59.826)
grounded and stable with you know I talk about with yourself and with God and then from that place we can make the next decision. But but you'll never be able to make a decision about what to do until you're reconnected again with yourself.

Lora Cheadle (25:02.913)
Yourself. Yes.

Lora Cheadle (25:15.669)
Yes. Yes. Which is huge. Now there's like 10 things I want to talk about all at the same time. But let's start here. When you talk about starting the affair journey, you didn't just wake up one morning and say, I know, this seems like a great idea. And to a heck with my partner and our family and everything.

Kristina (25:23.271)
No, no.

Lora Cheadle (25:41.751)
Like you said, you start hanging out with people and then it gets fun and yes, I hear that word alive too. It's

It's a series of steps. It's something that you fall into. And the people that I have talked to, my own husband included, they don't feel like they're necessarily doing anything wrong along the way because it's just the next natural step and it's just the next evolution. And I'd love you to talk about that too, because it's hard for people sometimes to wrap their head around how did you knowingly make these choices?

And how can you say these choices didn't mean anything, but at the time they almost don't? And I'm just wondering if you can shed some light on that process of falling into the affair small choice at a time where it's easy to rationalize and justify what's going on.

Kristina (26:39.986)
Hm, yeah, yeah, small choices at a time. Yeah, I think, like I said, at that time we were both working so much. And so it was easy to say, yeah, I can I can give this guy a ride home from work because it it was kinda on my way home. And so so no big deal. And and was I wrong in doing that? No. I think too my brain used to always get stuck in like what's

Lora Cheadle (26:48.354)
Okay.

Kristina (27:08.796)
Right, what's wrong, what's black and white. And I I'd like to say, I think now it's a little more just what's wise. So yeah, was I wrong for taking this this one guy home from work? No. But doing it repeatedly, late at night, just he and I, like, was that the wisest choice? Probably not. And this wasn't this guy I'm talking about wasn't even the affair partner. He was the one that introduced me to somebody else. And so that's how for me it just snowballed.

Lora Cheadle (27:11.53)
Yes.

Kristina (27:38.685)
where it felt like innocent choices. you know, hey, you wanna come hang out with us one night? And I'm like, well, like my husband's at work, and so what am I gonna do? Go home and sit sit by myself? Like, sure, like I'll go hang out. And and so again, was I wrong for doing that? I think that's where I started to step into that gray area of was it wrong to hang out? No. However, would I have willingly

Lora Cheadle (27:52.663)
Right.

Kristina (28:07.826)
been open to tell my husband, Hey, I went to a party tonight. so when the the secrecy and the the hiding started, I think that's when I when I teetered past the line. And

How did one one other thing I was gonna mention with just deceiving the word deception and deceiving a friend actually reminded me of this yesterday. We are really good, I'll speak for myself, I am really good at deceiving myself. And so even when it Yes, yes, that's I mean all of us, but I will I will claim it for myself. yeah, I'm so good at deceiving myself to say, yeah, I I took him home. There's nothing wrong with that. We went to a party, there's nothing wrong with that.

Lora Cheadle (28:39.783)
Yes. Aren't we all

Kristina (28:53.844)
I hung out, you know, with this one guy till two o'clock in the morning and we ended up kissing. Like, okay, well, like it it won't happen again. You know, so I just filled my head with justifying and rationalizing and and there were moments, I tried not to do this often, but there were moments when maybe my husband did something that that made me mad or hurt me and

Lora Cheadle (29:04.631)
Right.

Kristina (29:21.81)
And then it was like, well, fine, like he's gonna make his choices, I must be fine with my choices. And now I I'm not that kind of violent person that I'm like it like you mentioned revenge affairs. Like I I wasn't intentionally seeking revenge for how he hurt me, but once in a while it slipped into my mind. And so yeah, so how does it seem so innocent at the time? I think I'm just really good at deceiving myself. And so again, can I step out of the hiding and live in integrity?

Lora Cheadle (29:26.005)
You click

Lora Cheadle (29:41.015)
Mm-hmm.

Kristina (29:51.849)
Like w is this something that I'd be willing to share with other people, even my friends or or mentors or whatever. Would I be willing to share this with them? And so that that's a good gauge on if I'm living in in integrity now.

Lora Cheadle (29:56.546)
Yeah.

Lora Cheadle (30:04.329)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I I I I appreciate so much of that because self-deception is huge. It's huge in every different area. And interestingly, my husband, he had five different affair partners over 15 years. And with every single one, he said the story in his head was, I am really helping them. They are a really pathetic hurt person. And I this is just me helping them.

So I'm actually being a good, what would Jesus do? He would help. I'm gonna help them. And you know, he says looking back on it, it's like, whoa, how could I have actually thought that? But he said it was, it's truly the story in his head. And he deceived himself by saying, Yeah, I'm just gonna show them and I'm gonna help them and I'm gonna be here with them. And similarly, the things that he would pick up on in our marriage to justify it.

Yeah, well, Laura's got this going on anyway. Yeah, well, she ignored me here. And that's human. And it's important to have grace for that. And then to also hold ourselves to a higher standard than going forward. Because until we admit, yes, I have a tendency to do that, we're never going to heal. And that's one of the things that I appreciate so much about your work is you're admitting it. You know.

We all have the ways we deceive ourselves. So how do we then choose to step into the light? How do we have that faith and that hope and that self-direction that, okay, I can't name my pain, but I will work with a coach who will help me start naming it?

And yes, I feel shame and embarrassment and grief and guilt and all of that, and yet I'm still going to stand in it because when I admit to it, I give other people a path to come forward and to come clean as well. What are some of those steps that you took to really start living in this new, fresh, clean way?

Kristina (32:14.451)
Mm, yeah. Yep. I one of the quotes that comes to mind, one my favorite favorite phrases is you can't read the label from inside the jar. And so that's why it was important for me to e even before the affair ended, about about a year before, I had started counseling for myself, because I thought I just I I need somebody on the outside who who can speak into me. And now, yeah, it's more like in the the coaching world where where I spend my time.

But it's really important that I always have somebody who has full access to everything. I I think of one the coach I'm working with right now, yes, she has business knowledge. She she helps me with business things, but there are sometimes I show up on a call with her and I say, I gotta talk about life today. Like can you just hold space for whatever, the tears, the celebrations, like literally everything. and she taught me the phrase whole human.

So I'll send her a message. I'm I'm checking in as a whole human today, like not just the business piece. And and so that's been really helpful. yeah, just someone that has all access and and can hold me accountable and help me grow. But as far as my specific journey then of healing, I actually think of of four like mile markers that that were on my journey. And the first for me was actually a working like on my soul. Like I said at the retreat, I I

was getting back to Jesus and I had known him my whole life, but there was a new depth and a new hunger and thirst. And so thankfully in that season I I had about a two hour block every day of just like alone time. Like kids were at school, the baby was napping. And so I thought, well I I could fill this time with housework and groceries and all the responsibilities.

I said, or I can sit at my table with my my Bible open and just be here. Like I don't need a checklist, I don't need an agenda. for me it was like let me sit in God's presence. And so meditation, prayer, journaling, whatever that quiet time looked like. but my soul needed some some reconnection and some tending too. And then the next thing was that I was working with a coach who is a a master in neuroscience. And so she just

Kristina (34:37.202)
knew a lot about the brain. And there is a a Bible verse that says to take every thought captive. And and another one that says, be transformed by the renewing of your mind. And I thought, okay, I I've got to get in my head and start listening to my thoughts. And obviously I don't want my thoughts to get wrapped up in this guy. I want to choose to have new thoughts. And so lots of mindset work. And then of course with the mindset work came the emotional language when I realized,

having a thought is immediately connected with an emotion. And I know there's debate about which one comes first, the the thought or the emotion, but they go hand in hand. And so I I printed out even the feelings wheel and taped it up 'cause I thought I I need help with that language. And so that was part of my whole journey too of, you know, the podcasts and the books and and the mentors. It was like I needed someone else to help give me the words to speak about my experience 'cause

Lora Cheadle (35:16.949)
Right.

Kristina (35:36.219)
me just being inside my own jar, I didn't have those words. And so then what I have loved the most is that even after I I've been healing all of those parts of me, within the last, you know, three or four years, I became much more aware even of my body. And so y you may have heard this, you know, going to to counseling is amazing, but like we talk a lot. And when you walk out, you may or may not feel better.

And and so then I started learning more about the nervous system, you know, the internal family systems and parts work and the somatic kind of healing. And it made sense because I said, wow, I've spent so long healing, like tending to these other parts of me. I've still got a whole rest of my body that needs healing too. Cause to put it bluntly, I I had done damage to my body, like I had done wrong to my physical body. And so

So it made sense that that part needed healing just as much as the other parts. So so I very much think holistically, when women come to me, it's like, sure, let's talk about the story and we're gonna we're gonna look at all the other angles that that make up you as well.

Lora Cheadle (36:44.973)
Right, because we're we're yes, we are a physical body, but we are a spirit, we are a mind, we are emotion, we are all of those things. And you're absolutely right. Same thing. I I'm not dissing therapy. I therapy is amazing, and we need more. So I really appreciate that. And also what I love in your story is you didn't because this is such a misconception.

You didn't come home, say, honey, this is what's been going on. my God, it's really awful. I'm gonna see a counselor. I'm gonna do somatic movement. And you know what? By Christmas, it's gonna be amazing. It's getting you took an active part. The feeling swill is huge. Describing what we are feeling is so hard, having the words for it. And it's a journey, and it's a long, it's a long journey.

And that doesn't mean it's necessarily hard every step of the way, but there's always more to uncover. There's always more to learn. And I'm curious, what was the interplay like between you and your husband? Because he had his own journey, you had your journey. How were your days? How would you hold space for him? How would he hold space for you? What did you do right? What did you do wrong? I'd love to hear more about that journey.

Kristina (38:11.646)
Yeah, I I love the the multiple angle of that. First, I'll just say, yeah, going back to that, like day number one and and immediately what happened, it was probably the first six weeks that felt like death. Like it was awful. and no one prepared me for that. You know, what when I worked out this confession with these coaches, they were not affair experts. Like they they held space for me, but they couldn't tell me

what to prepare for when I went home. And so yeah, those first six weeks were awful. And so if anyone's listening and you're in that right now, there seems to be a shift around like week seven, week eight, things things just start to look up again. but in those first six weeks, it was a lot of just hard, heavy, intense conversation and

Of course I wanted to be available to him. Like you said, you the the betrayed partner often goes first. Like they they need the healing first because I know I did the wounding to them. But I had to be careful because then it there were days where it felt like I was just caring for him. So again, going back to that image of the car accident, we were both wounded, and there were some days that it felt like, well, I'm gonna ignore my broken bones.

so that I can help your broken bones. And and that's not fair. And so I had to find that balance of okay, how do I show up for him in a loving way and also still care for myself. So that was the new thing I I needed to to learn how to navigate. And so lots of heavy conversations cause I I knew that if he wanted to ask questions, if he just wanted my attention, if he wanted to, you know, sit next to me on the couch and we watch a show, whatever.

Lora Cheadle (39:37.398)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kristina (40:04.658)
But but we we wanted to start spending time together, which we had not been for years and years and years. So that was new. And and I still remember days where like, well, we don't want to watch TV, we don't want a hard conversation. I don't know, let's bring out a board game. So that at least we're sitting in the same room and just kind of doing something together, but it's not hard and heavy. Like, okay. So we so we tried different things like that. And yeah, other parts of the story were that

Lora Cheadle (40:09.708)
Yeah.

Kristina (40:33.896)
that I would say God just kinda placed in our lap. Excuse me. We ended up at a marriage conference. a marriage conference and that was about week I think eight. And so that's where I also knew things were things were just starting to turn a corner there. and so that was that was really good. It was kind of a random conference. I don't know like where it came from. I don't know if they've done it again, but it was just exactly what we needed at that time.

Lora Cheadle (40:48.225)
Mm-hmm.

Lora Cheadle (40:51.788)
Yes.

Lora Cheadle (41:01.362)
That's some divine intervention.

Kristina (41:03.238)
Yes, it really I I can't explain it. Yeah, how all of the things just lined up. so that was cool. And then at another church that's that's in our area, they were doing a a class, a program that's called Reengage. And it's really for marriages that are struggling from from anything. I mean any kind of like just marriage that wants to to strengthen again.

you are welcome there. And and so that was the first time I started hearing stories like mine. There there weren't tons, but it was like God was giving me like one person at a time. Like, that woman shares my story. Like I I didn't know that. Or or here's a couple where yeah the man has that story. And but but we're in a shared safe space. And so so that was like twelve or fourteen weeks. So it was a long time that was good

Lora Cheadle (41:36.459)
Yes.

Lora Cheadle (41:47.745)
Yeah.

Kristina (41:58.705)
show up there. And then our local church that we went to regularly was also doing a book study that was just very encouraging. So we we had the support and the scaffolding. and then I'll tell you where it gets a little tricky is when that scaffolding starts to come down, like when the program ends or the book study ends. And then it's up to you to say, are you going to continue doing those things? And so for me, like I mentioned earlier, having having just open time to

Lora Cheadle (42:23.265)
Yes.

Kristina (42:28.274)
sit in the Bible or journal or pray. that continued for me. And going on walks. Like I I knew I needed to move my body sometimes. And and then again those the intentional choices of like family time, you know, it like going on dates, spending time with family, being transparent about like my phone. And my husband never asked like for my location. it he wasn't he wasn't asking for that. But

Lora Cheadle (42:38.23)
Mm-hmm.

Lora Cheadle (42:51.308)
Yeah.

Kristina (42:57.074)
But I knew that I was willing to be transparent. Like, do do you want to look at my text messages? Go ahead. That's fine. And so I I know everybody handles that differently. but yeah, the the other dance was was letting him kind of navigate his own his own path as well. And so it it looked a lot different than mine. there there came a time, you know, even way later where I had a conversation like, hey, I feel like we're going back into old patterns and I don't like this.

Lora Cheadle (43:02.966)
Yeah.

Lora Cheadle (43:25.108)
Yeah.

Kristina (43:25.778)
And what are we gonna do about it? And so so on once you start the uphill trajectory, it's not uphill forever, you know, real life comes back and and then you navigate healing with kids and healing with different schedules and so it's it's a bumpy road sometimes, but but yeah, every day what are the things that I'm committed to for myself and for my relationship, whatever that looks like.

Lora Cheadle (43:47.437)
Yeah. Yeah. So was it hard for you to forgive yourself?

Kristina (43:56.275)
Hmm. Good question. There was a a couple a couple things that were difficult. forgiving myself I th was okay. I I was learning self compassion. And I love the phrase, I was doing the best with what I had at the time. And so that kind of stuff helped me like, all right, I

Lora Cheadle (44:21.996)
Yes.

Kristina (44:25.938)
I shouldn't have done this, but here I am, and there's no sense in like sitting in it. So let's figure out figure out how to grieve and also move forward. but a couple other things that that were a struggle for me, because again, my relationship with with God was important, and I started to ask myself, what does God think about me? And and I realized as I would do just some mental visualization, after a while I thought, I always when when I

see God looking at me, he still looks kind of disappointed or kind of disgusted. And and so I had to take that back to what I truly believed about God. And I said, that that doesn't line up. I I know that God's not actually disgusted with me. And so that was a really powerful moment to say, okay, do I truly believe that God has forgiven me and and loves me unconditionally? And yeah, and that he's not holding any of this over me. So

So God's forgiveness was was hard for me. and then also for myself, it was self-trust. Can I trust myself? to be totally blunt with you, can I trust myself to talk to another man and not mess it up again? Like there was a day where I thought, well, I might as well not even leave my house because I might run into a guy at the grocery store and like say something stupid. and I thought, whoa, I I need to work on on trusting myself that I can.

Lora Cheadle (45:38.795)
Yeah.

Lora Cheadle (45:47.799)
Right.

Kristina (45:52.799)
have these appropriate relationships, whether at work or, you know, wherever I'm at. and so yeah, that that's a common theme for women I talk about is is being able to trust themselves again too.

Lora Cheadle (46:04.383)
Yeah. Thank you for naming that because I think that is again one of those things that isn't talked about because you had said earlier, like the black and white thinking. It's never black and white. It's always nuanced. And I think it's really hard sometimes to be able to say words like, What does it mean I can't trust myself? And then for the betrayed partner, then they go, they're gonna go hop in bed with every person they see. And it's like, No, it's not that. It's

different but yeah they think I I I I don't even necessarily have the words around that but it it's self maybe you can help me out it's trusting yourself to not let yourself down it's

Kristina (46:36.126)
Yeah.

Kristina (46:41.876)
Yeah

Kristina (46:50.828)
Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I had to learn maybe commitment was the word. So here's how I started working on my self-trust. If I put something in my calendar, like go to the gym, could I show up and do that? And so I was exercising the muscle of like, hey, I I'm a girl who does what she says she's gonna do. And I was practicing it in other

non intense situations, but it was the same muscle that I would need to to be able to talk with a man in a in an appropriate way and then walk away and I said, Well look at me, I did what I said I was gonna do And so it was the same muscle both ways.

Lora Cheadle (47:34.974)
Mm-hmm. Exactly. And I am willing to bet that before the affair, you still had that muscle. It's just that when this happened, it's so easy to collapse in on ourselves and be like, my gosh, if I could do this and then catastrophize and to make things it's hard to say to make things worse than they are because it's not a great thing to do, but to make it bigger than it is.

Kristina (48:03.444)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you know, and I was also just thinking in another very real sense, I also betrayed myself. And so yeah, so I had that muscle of self-trust before all this happened, but when I started deceiving myself, then I I was betraying my true self on the inside. And it's kind of mind-boggling to think I was both the the betrayer and the betrayed.

Lora Cheadle (48:12.67)
for sure.

Kristina (48:33.276)
at the same time. Not to minimize anyone else's pain, but but yeah, it's it's a weird journey to walk to say, Man, I'm I'm so sorry for what I did to you, partner, and then to look in the mirror and say, I'm so sorry for what I did to yourself as well.

Lora Cheadle (48:50.209)
Yeah, yeah. And that's why I so truly passionately wanted this conversation. And I'm glad that you're having it. Because it's when we're in pain, it's hard to get out of ourselves and to see another person's perspective. And I've had some people, you know, say to me, You have way too much compassion for the cheating partner and blah blah blah. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. Was there damage to me when my husband cheated? Of course. But

He hurt himself worse than he hurt me. You know, he did this to him. I didn't do this to me. And th I like how you say it. It's it's a hard place to hold. He betrayed me, but he betrayed his own soul worse. And then when you talk about God forgiving you, how I see it is God was so relieved when my husband came clean.

God is so relieved when you saw this for what it is because you can get back to being the person of integrity that you are. You know, you can get back into alignment. My husband got back into alignment.

Everybody out there listening, your you know, betraying partner can get back into a in alignment. That's something to celebrate and you have to go through the grief and you have to go through the shame and you have to go through the pain and you have to go through all that. But ultimately, yes, how do we all not betray ourselves again? Because what being on

Being betrayed, what that taught me is all the ways I was betraying myself. I overgave. I didn't speak up for what I needed and wanted. I put up with things that I shouldn't have put up with. I tolerated because I didn't think I was worthy, because I thought I had to perform and be perfect. So I was betraying myself. My husband was betraying himself. The greatest gift is coming together and being like, whoa, look at what we did to ourselves and to each other.

Kristina (50:48.71)
Yeah, and I've said this kind of work that that both you and I are doing would be so different if both both sides, both parties, just agreed to look in the mirror and do their own self reflection. I think Yeah, I think where where our work gets difficult is maybe working with one person and maybe they're willing to look in the mirror and their spouse or their partner is not. And so so that's why in my work I I only work with the woman.

Lora Cheadle (51:02.747)
my gosh, yeah.

Kristina (51:18.28)
Because we mentioned this earlier, when they're told to just go to marital counseling, she's often getting overlooked. And so so I'm very clear. I I want to look at your heart and make sure that you are tended to, that you get a chance to look in the mirror and be honest. And then yeah, hopefully somebody is taking care of that for for your partner, but you have no control over that. And so w we we will work on what you have control over, which is you. And so yeah, so I'd say for for everybody listening, just how honest are you willing to get

Lora Cheadle (51:38.486)
Yeah.

Kristina (51:47.839)
To to own your stuff. Like you said, you realized you had been betraying yourself too. And so I I think that's where the healing happens, is when everybody is is willing to do that, to take ownership of their part. And I don't mean a fake like, well, maybe I was a bad wife and so that's why you stepped out. Like no none of the fake stuff. Just just own, own a hundred percent of whatever is yours. Don't try to own own anything that belongs to someone else.

Lora Cheadle (52:05.228)
No.

Lora Cheadle (52:13.931)
Yeah. So so right on. Two things that I was gonna say about that. First, just full confession on my side. As the betrayed partner, I went through a season of I didn't do anything wrong. I was the perfect wife. I didn't do this. I as a defense mechanism, and I think it's very common, it's hard to look at yourself and I think I don't need to look at myself. There's nothing wrong with me. I didn't make the mistake. And you know what?

That's I want to speak to that because wherever you're at, just know that maybe you're there and maybe it'll change. And maybe you could get curious about, okay, even though I am perfect, if I were to look at myself, maybe what could it bring up? Yeah. And you know, same thing. If you are whichever side you're on, whether you're confessing or hearing this, know that with time hearts do soften. With time, perspective comes in.

Kristina (52:56.988)
Yes. If yes. Mm-hmm.

Lora Cheadle (53:12.725)
with adept coaches like Christina, like me, who do work exclusively on one side or the other, we can help you maybe start breaking down some of those walls and just getting curious about what else might be here.

Kristina (53:28.596)
Mm. My my two all time favor favorite words are curiosity and compassion. If we can just be curious about what's going on or what happened, and then whatever we find, massive compassion on top of that.

Lora Cheadle (53:34.167)
Yeah.

Lora Cheadle (53:41.174)
Massive compassion. Compassion does not mean I condone it. I have ultimate compassion for many people and I still don't condone the behavior. But I'm compassionate and I'm understanding. And one of my favorite phrases, there, you know, there, but for the grace of God go I. Like we can all be in all of these positions and situations, no matter what. We are never above something.

Kristina (54:10.696)
Yep, that's that's a good dose of humility. And and I've heard that a few times from you. Just I personally just appreciate your humility and and being willing to do the hard work. Yeah, your your listeners are are blessed to have you. That's so good.

Lora Cheadle (54:24.001)
L likewise, I I think I think we hold a co together we hold a more complete picture. And that's what I'm all about. Same thing, the holistic nature of everything. So where can people learn more about you, get in touch, book a session with you? Because yeah, the work that you do is very powerful and very needed.

Kristina (54:41.694)
Mm-hmm.

Kristina (54:45.554)
Yeah. Yeah. So I'm actually I think I'm stepping off of social media. So if you go to Instagram, you can see my profile. It's there at Christina Coaching. At Christina with a K. And so it's there. You can DM me, but you just probably won't see me active there for a while. But I am most active in my email, Christina at Christina Joy Coaching dot com. And then the same like the website, Christina Joy Coaching dot com. And yeah, the the links are there as far as, you know, booking a call.

Lora Cheadle (54:51.233)
Yeah.

Kristina (55:14.51)
please feel free to email me if you have questions. I just like to say that I do actually read all of my own emails and and reply to them. So I know some days we're worried about who's actually gonna read my story if I email, but but it's it's safe with me. And so I love putting putting names and stories together. So it it'd be an honor to to hold space for for your listeners and wherever they're coming from and maybe just what stuck out to them from our conversation.

Lora Cheadle (55:22.944)
Yeah.

Lora Cheadle (55:41.931)
Yeah, thank you so much. Listeners, definitely reach out. like Christina, I read all of my own emails. It's too precious not to. I feel too, too blessed and honored to be in this position to assign that to somebody else. So reach out to her, reach out to me. It doesn't matter if you have both stepped out in your marriage, if only one of you has, where you're at along the way, if you almost stepped out, you are loved, you are worthy, you can move through this.

Kristina (55:49.257)
Yeah.

Lora Cheadle (56:11.934)
With grace, with peace, because there is so much on the other side. So thank you, Christina listeners. I will put all of the links in the show notes. Have an amazing week. And as usual, always remember to flaunt exactly who you are, because who you are is always more than enough.