Whether it’s taking you and the kids off of your soon-to-be-ex-husband’s cell phone plan, protecting yourself from a psychotic affair partner who is lashing out on social media, or trying to get out of a lease that you signed in haste when you found out about the affair, legal questions, and legal remedies are all around and more available to us than we might imagine. In this episode, consumer protection attorney Danny Karon shares his tips and wisdom on how to navigate just about any legal questions or concerns that might pop up during your betrayal recovery journey.

Top Take-a-Ways:

• Determining if something is a legal matter, has a legal remedy, and might be worth pursuing or not.
• DIY (small claims court) vs. finding a lawyer.
• Demystifying the legal process, legal documents, and the power of common sense.

Download your Betrayal Recovery Tool Kit at www.BetrayalRecoveryGuide.com , and take the first steps in feeling okay again, despite what’s going on around you.

 

 

About Danny Karon

Danny Karon is a class-action trial attorney specializing in antitrust, consumer–fraud, and wage-and-hour litigation. He began his class-action career with Much Shelist Freed Denenberg Ament & Rubenstein, P.C. in Chicago. He now manages Karon LLC. He represents individuals in antitrust, consumer-fraud, wage-and-hour, and other class-actions and has represented domestic and international corporations in domestic and international antitrust class-action matters. He also defends corporations in consumer-fraud and antitrust class actions.

Danny teaches consumer law at the University of Michigan Law School and The Ohio State University Moritz College of Law and taught complex litigation at Columbia Law School. He has also been a lecturer in law at Cleveland State University’s Cleveland-Marshall College of Law. He lectures on class-action law at multiple other law schools and serves on Loyola University Chicago School of Law’s Institute for Consumer Antitrust Studies’ U.S. Advisory Board. For thirteen years, he chaired the ABA’s National Institute on Class Actions, for five years wrote a bimonthly column for Law360, was an editorial board member and contributing author to the ABA Litigation Section’s Class Actions Today-Jurisdiction to Resolution magazine, co-chaired the American Association of Justice Class Action Litigation Group, was a member of the Ohio Association of Justice Board of Trustees, and served as an editorial board member for the Ohio Academy of Justice’s Ohio Trial magazine. He has published several law review and bar journal articles on class-action topics, and he lectures nationally on class actions for the ABA and other bar associations.

Learn more and get the support you need at: https://yourlovablelawyer.com/

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Attorney, speaker and Burnout & Betrayal Recovery Coach, Lora Cheadle believes that betrayal uncovers the truth of what’s possible when we stop focusing on what was done to us and start showing up unapologetically for ourselves. She helps women rebuild their identity and self-worth after infidelity so they can reclaim (or find for the very first time) their confidence, clarity, and connection to source and create their own kind of happily ever after.

 

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Transcript:

 

Narrator [00:00:01]:
You’re listening to FLAUNT!, find your sparkle and create a life you love after infidelity or betrayal. A podcast women who’ve been betrayed by their intimate partner and want to turn their devastation into an invitation to reclaim themselves and their worth. Tune in weekly so you can start making sense of it all and learn how to be okay on the inside no matter what goes on on the outside. Download your free betrayal recovery toolkit at betrayalrecoveryguide.com.

Narrator [00:00:35]:
This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. Have you been struggling lately? Relationship issues impact every area of your life. When I found out about my husband’s infidelity, I was so devastated. I could barely function. Sleeping was impossible because I couldn’t shut off my brain. Eating was a challenge because I felt nauseous all the time, and for the 1st month or so, everything felt pointless. Whether you’re having trouble sleeping, feeling hopeless, or just can’t focus, BetterHelp is here to help you. BetterHelp offers licensed therapists who are trained to listen and help.

Narrator [00:01:12]:
You can talk to your therapist in a private online environment at your convenience. There’s a broad range of expertise in BetterHelp’s 20,000 plus therapist network that gives you access to help that might not be available in your area. Just fill out a questionnaire to help assess your specific needs, and then you’ll be matched with a therapist in under 24 hours. Then you can schedule secure video and phone sessions. Plus, you can exchange unlimited messages, and everything you share is completely confidential. I know that confidentiality was important for me, especially early on when I couldn’t even get my own mind wrapped around what was happening. And it was so comforting to be able to speak with someone candidly about everything I was going through to validate that what I was feeling and experiencing was completely normal. You can request a new therapist at no additional charge anytime.

Narrator [00:02:07]:
Join the 2,000,000 plus people who have taken charge of their mental health with an experienced BetterHelp therapist. Special offer to FLAUNT!, create a life you love after infidelity and betrayal listeners. You get 10% off your 1st month at better help dotcom/FLAUNT!. That’s betterhelphelp.com /FLAUNT!, fla u n t. Thanks again to BetterHelp for sponsoring this podcast.

Lora Cheadle [00:02:50]:
Hello, and welcome to Flaunt. Find your sparkle and create a life you love after infidelity or betrayal. I’m Lora Cheadle, And if you’ve been with me for a while, you know that I’m an attorney. And you know that we’ve had attorneys on the show before. In particular, we have had lawyers who have talked about things like divorce and custody and, like, all of those things that you would think about when you think about infidelity or divorce or betrayal. Today’s guest is not going to talk about divorce and custody and all of that kind of stuff. Danny Caron is an attorney. He is known as the lovable lawyer.

Lora Cheadle [00:03:32]:
And what I really, really appreciate about him is he’s really passionate about providing access to justice for all people. He’s passionate about educating people about where the law comes into play and things to know. And I know that might sound like, what do you mean, Lora, things to know? And the reason I’m kinda stumbling on that is because law is everywhere. Whether it’s getting a lease on a new apartment, whether it’s I mean, it’s everything. It’s there’s employment law. There’s divorce. There’s leases. There’s consumer protection.

Lora Cheadle [00:04:07]:
There’s just all of these things. And so often, we don’t even know that it’s a legal matter, and then we find out that we’ve been hurt in some way or that we had a remedy that we didn’t know existed. So that’s what we’re going to talk about today is where the law might be impacting you, what you might need to know, why lawyers aren’t scary, who you can reach out to, and just all of that good stuff. So with that, welcome to the show, Danny. It’s really great to have you here.

Danny Karon [00:04:40]:
It’s great to be here. And with that sort of lead in, I don’t know that you need me because you hit it right on the head. A lot is everywhere. It’s just that people don’t know it, and that’s why we’re together today.

Lora Cheadle [00:04:49]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. Start by sharing a little bit about yourself with our audience because you have done so many amazing things, but let them get to know you a little bit more and tell them why why you are the lovable lawyer.

Danny Karon [00:05:04]:
Sure. I’d be happy to. Well, I’ve been practicing law in the traditional sense for about 30 about 31 years now. It adds up. And I do mostly consumer work for plaintiffs, meaning folks who have legal claims. They wanna assert against somebody else. And over my time in the business, I came to appreciate that there’s this kind of societal bias against access to justice where people who tend to deserve it the most tend to get it the least. And like you said, that results in people not knowing they have a legal issue, or if they have an issue not knowing how to resolve it, or if knowing how to maybe resolve it, not having somebody to help implement that resolution, or knowing how to find a lawyer, or how to pay for a lawyer and all these sorts of things and concerns.

Danny Karon [00:05:48]:
So with that realization in mind, I figured, you know what? Maybe we can do better as lawyers. We kinda get in the way, but why not bring the law directly to people and enhance, raise their aptitude, their awareness for for the law, for legal issues so that they can do something for themselves in a world where lawyers often are inaccessible. They’re unaffordable. I took a look then at the daytime TV landscape with all these thoughts in mind and and and and Internet landscape too. And I observed a few things. I saw there’s a lot of, call it, emotional wellness content out there, like doctor Phil talking about how to be safe and sound in your mind and body. There’s also a lot of I saw financial wellness content out there. Jim Kramer, Sue Orman talking about how to set up a 5 29 for your kid or an IRA for yourself.

Danny Karon [00:06:35]:
But where I came to that 3rd essential wellness bucket, to my mind, legal, which, by the way, when it tips, it spills into the other 2 because you freak out and you go broke. Yeah. That’s There’s really nothing out there, but these kinda trumped up more exploitative than anything courtroom shows where they hone in on people who are already in the soup. They’re already suffering through something, and you watch them flail around trying to get out of it. Rather than, like, I wanna do sliding the dial back and be more preventative. Kinda like a legal physical. Like, you go to the doctor to get a physical to avoid getting sick. This is kinda your legal physical to avoid stepping into legal problems.

Danny Karon [00:07:12]:
So that’s what the brand is all about, to take your second question first, in terms of who I am and why I’ve got such a passion for and penchant for really promoting this sort of brand and and and content to people. So I mentioned, been doing this type of work for 30 years. I saw this big gap in the system. I also teach law school. I like to teach and help and contribute and raise awareness, for about 13 years for the American Bar Association, which is the big call it Legal Trade Association, which, of course, you know, and now your listeners do too, out there. I chaired what’s called the National Institute on Class Actions. Class actions are lawsuits brought by 1 or 2 folks on behalf of everybody else. They’re the big ones where people don’t have the voice to help themselves.

Danny Karon [00:07:56]:
1 person does as a representative of everybody else to effect real and meaningful change. So I ran that program. It’s, this program is the biggest, most well respected, robust, well attended class action program in the country for judge federal judges mostly, professors, law professors, and lawyers. And I got on stage a lot. I got to teach a lot. I got to got to put on a show. Not your vapid, soulless, antiseptic, vanilla pro form a to be expected kind of program that a lot of us might be familiar with. With the press conference configuration, you know, the the panel and the, 4 folks lined up, I’m just kind of reciting PowerPoints that people largely ignore anyway because it’s like you’re on your iPhone in 10, 20 seconds.

Danny Karon [00:08:39]:
I swapped that out in favor of writing 3 act plays and talk shows and game shows and mock oral arguments and mock mediations and things to keep people entertained. Because if you’re not entertaining, you’re not keeping folks’ attention. You have 3 second to grab with a better graph. Right?

Lora Cheadle [00:08:53]:
Yes.

Danny Karon [00:08:54]:
So I took that background, the the performing background, and I was a speech and rhetoric major undergrad anyway. So I I like being up in front of the crowd, the bigger, better. I think about the detail. Okay. And I combine all these, interests and concerns along with, I should add, I teach law school too. So I’m I’m I’m really teaching a rigorous textual lesson, routinely to law students. I started teaching at Columbia Law School. I’m now at, Ohio State of Michigan, and I go back and forth.

Danny Karon [00:09:21]:
And it is possible for the 2 schools to get along. So I’m I’m so I took all of those, experiences and combined them into this lovable lawyer brand, where I’m trying to bring this sort of brand and awareness and aptitude and attention and, accessibility to people in a free, fun, and friendly way so that they too can stay out of trouble from the get go in various senses. We could talk all about the different types of topics, as we go, but the list is endless.

Lora Cheadle [00:09:46]:
It really is endless. And that’s why I kinda like to start because my listeners are have experienced infidelity. They have been betrayed by their intimate partner. As you know, that pulls the rug out from you in every sense of the work. People might need to go get an apartment. They might be running a hotel for a while. They might need to start thinking about all of these different concerns. They might need to go back to school.

Lora Cheadle [00:10:11]:
They might need where are some of the intersex with the law in a situation like that? Where are some of these places where people might go, oh, I didn’t even realize that was a legal issue. Yeah. Let’s talk about that.

Danny Karon [00:10:23]:
How about how about how about this? Let’s say, you’ve got a family cell phone plan, and your husband it’s in your husband’s name. Yep. And now you’ve gotta get your own cell phone, your own number. You wanna port your numbers so the people can continue to reach you. Now when you go to Verizon, T Mobile, AT and T, whomever, there are only a few vendors, all of them offer you, of course, a contract, and all of them have baked into their contract at the end in the small print, by which time you have a headache if you even get that far, what’s called a forced arbitration clause and class action ban. Yes. What what what’s that? That sounds illegal. That sounds that sounds intimidating.

Danny Karon [00:10:59]:
Well, it ought to be because they’re putting it in there not to help you. Believe me. And what it says is when, not if, but when you have a problem with your cell phone provider, whether they overcharge you, they have an extra line on your account, whatever.

Lora Cheadle [00:11:13]:
Mhmm.

Danny Karon [00:11:13]:
You can’t take them to court. You forfeit your 7th amendment right to a jury trial. That’s a pretty darn important, you know, right. It’s it’s a it’s a constitutional amendment. It’s the top ten of the bill of rights. I mean, it it means something, but not so much to the Supreme Court because it was eviscerated about 15 years ago. And you can be forced to go to a private tribunal on an individual basis, not even as a class, just yourself so you make minimal, if any impact, no one, not really, to the company. And the data show that about 97% of the time, because the defendant or here the cell phone company chooses the arbitrator or arbitrator and pays for them, you’re gonna lose.

Danny Karon [00:11:50]:
Why? Because if you win too much, they’re not getting hired back. Total insight game. So these are legal considerations that you would never know to have in mind, much less keep in mind, when you have to do something as fundamental and basic as going down the street to T Mobile and getting yourself a new cell phone. And this is something you will likely have to do along with getting an apartment, along with signing up for utilities, along with perhaps getting new credit cards when you’re going through divorce.

Lora Cheadle [00:12:20]:
Yeah. I love that you brought up cell phone because that is one of those play places too where people are like, I have a contract. I can’t get out of it. I’m stuck. I signed to this 5 year family plan or whatever it is, and now what do I do? And people, and rightfully so, don’t wanna go reach out to a lawyer. They don’t wanna go pay $300 an hour for advice. Where can people go to just start learning?

Danny Karon [00:12:47]:
Right. Well, you know what? It’s not even so much well, in addition, I should say, to not wanting to seek out counsel, no lawyer is gonna work for you. Because they know you’re not paying 3 100, 4 100, $500 an hour, and they’re not taking it on the come, meaning on a contingency fee basis because you can’t take a percentage of restart my cell phone service. You can’t. You’re on your own. You really are. So where is somebody left to go? Well, you know what? That’s where I come in. That’s what spawned this whole brand.

Danny Karon [00:13:18]:
I knew that there were so there were too few places people could go. These in betweener kinda cases, these tweeters, right, where you get them you get calls all the time where I cannot afford to do something for somebody. Mhmm. And they can’t afford to pay me to do something for them. So I help them as best I can. I often do it for free. I often refer them to small claims card, give them some guidance. Yep.

Danny Karon [00:13:41]:
Because small claims is great for them for something like this. We’ll talk about why it’s great in a second. But if you want a little bit of extra guidance, I don’t say advice because I can’t give advice. It’s unethical for an attorney to give advice, and I don’t tell you what to do. I only offer some guidelines, some things that I would do. And if you wanna do them, god bless, because they seem like they might be affected. Right? So I’m offering legal guidance and peace of mind to do with what you’d like. And if you want to push back on your cell phone contract and and strike that clause, good luck.

Danny Karon [00:14:11]:
You know what? They’ll never go for it. And if you say T Mobile, I’m not contracting with you. I’m going down the street to AT and T. You know what? You’ll get the same response there. Sometimes you get stuck with stuff. So what do you do when you get screwed around? Yep. Well, that’s where small claims part comes in. In my experience, if you’ve got, say, small value value claim, 100, $200, $500, too small for any lawyer to take or for you to pay for any lawyer to take.

Danny Karon [00:14:38]:
Right. What can we do? Small claims court is a perfectly suitable forum for something like this because their jurisdictional entry points are low. They’re made for cases like this. The clerks are often very, very helpful because they know you’re coming in by yourself or what’s called pro se, representing yourself. They’ll help you write up a complaint. You’ll file it. The cost is often nominal. And what I have found, this is in my experience, doesn’t mean it’s gonna happen all the time.

Danny Karon [00:15:04]:
But what I found is that rather than a company hiring counsel in some faraway city, have the counsel blown up on the case and the facts and the complaint show up in court, by which time the legal bill is already $5,000, they’ll just pay you. You get what you want, you get your satisfaction, and life goes on. It gets back to normal. It’s a really nice opportunity that too few people take advantage of I Fund.

Lora Cheadle [00:15:28]:
I agree with you. Okay. Just to be clear for people. So if somebody’s like, I’m really mad at my husband. He cheated on me. I’m gonna sue my husband. Talk about that and small claims court in a situation like that because I don’t think sometimes people know the difference between commercial, family, civil, criminal, like,

Danny Karon [00:15:50]:
all Right. Right. Things. Yeah. If you have a domestic issue and you wanna file for divorce, that’s not a small claim. That’s a big claim, and it’s in the wrong court. I mean, there is a domestic relations court set up just for that. There’s a probate court set up for trusts and estates issues.

Danny Karon [00:16:06]:
There is a court of general jurisdiction set up for personal injury claims and commercial claims. And if you have a small value personal injury claim, I guess you could see that small claims court, but doesn’t seem like it’s well suited for that because those tend to be a little bit bigger anyway. Mhmm. But you made me think of something else, something extra, which was, you know, I wanna sue my husband because he wasn’t faithful. And maybe it doesn’t rise to the level of divorce, but you just wanna take your pound of flesh. Yeah. It sounded to me a little bit like when people say to me, I wanna sue the weatherman. Why? Because he stinks, or she gets it wrong all the time.

Danny Karon [00:16:41]:
I wanna sue the cable guy. Why? Because he didn’t come between 8 and 11. I’m like, okay. You know, it’s one thing to grouse about the way things happen and how life kinda gets the best of you sometimes, but you can’t sue for everything. You can only sue for things the law recognizes a legal claim for. Somebody hits with their car. Somebody breaches a contract. Somebody cheats on you when you wanna file for divorce.

Danny Karon [00:17:02]:
You can’t sue for everything. And often, it’s my job as a lawyer to listen to people who call with ideas that don’t hold up. I listen to everybody tell me every part of their story because that’s their day in court. That’s usually where it ends. And they deserve that, respect and that peace of mind in the day in court. I explained to them why rather than simply telling them that it’s not a claim. And, you know, 9 and a half times out of 10, they go away satisfied because they had somebody listen to them. They just want that.

Danny Karon [00:17:32]:
But you know what? Not everything’s a case. You might think it is, but now it’s not.

Lora Cheadle [00:17:37]:
Right. And I love how you hold space for people because you’re right. Sometimes people are just emotional. I know when I went through infidelity, my rational brain was not there.

Danny Karon [00:17:48]:
Mhmm.

Lora Cheadle [00:17:49]:
I was in a state of fight, flight, or freeze. I needed to take action, and I needed to take action now. And I had a million thoughts over a million different things, and it was so helpful just to talk to some people who could ground me and be like, I’m really sorry, Lora. And here are the things that you might wanna think about.

Danny Karon [00:18:12]:
Yeah. And the things that you don’t wanna think about because they’re not gonna serve you. Mhmm. And as somebody offer provide a little bit of guidance, who’s got some extra expertise to do so, boy, it it goes a long ways with people. And I don’t get paid for probably 90 percent of the stuff I do, but I hope the 10% pays for the rest. But, you know, to give people that peace of mind and develop that goodwill and to let them know that they have a resource and to tell their friends that they have a resource, because they wanna bounce something off me, That’s how you ought to do it. I just I just wound up a case totally not in my space. It was a a case where, some little girls got abused Oh.

Danny Karon [00:18:56]:
By a family way down the line, and the dad wanted to sue the really, really remote family members. And I’m like, the first thing I thought is, god. You know, I, you know, I don’t know if there is a duty for them to have said anything to the extent they knew anything that is because they’re really attenuated. It was kinda like, you know, I’m standing next to you on the curb and you step off and I see the bus coming. I don’t say anything. Do I have a duty to hold you back? Right. Not necessarily. Depends on the state of belief, but not necessarily.

Danny Karon [00:19:23]:
Mhmm. Because I don’t owe you anything. You’re not a family member. I don’t have any relationship with that with you. Yeah. And there was the same kind of thinking that affected me here, but I did a little looking and I found a case suggested maybe there was a duty. And I just went for it and I did it. And 4 years later, it resolved, And I didn’t I couldn’t have imagined we’d pull it off and get them some money to help the kids, and we did.

Danny Karon [00:19:47]:
And then when it was not not that I deserve a gold star for doing the right thing, and half of me thinks I shouldn’t tell you this, but, I ended up cutting my feet in half. I said, you guys keep the money because they needed it worse than I did. And that is the stuff that will pay itself forward. And even if it doesn’t, it’s the right thing to do. And too few lawyers do it.

Lora Cheadle [00:20:03]:
Yeah. I love that. What you said brought up a couple of different things that I wanna address. 1st, moral duty, ethical duty, legal duty. Those are different. Those are different, and sometimes we don’t know. And can you sue your husband because he cheated on you? Probably not, but some states have some type of alienation of affection that maybe there’s a cause of action against the other woman. Most states don’t.

Lora Cheadle [00:20:30]:
But talk about it. Reach out to somebody because that’s my second point. All states are different.

Narrator [00:20:36]:
All states are different.

Danny Karon [00:20:38]:
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. These are all state law issues. There’s no federal, what’s called common law, which means kind of judge made law that applies to people across the country. There isn’t. I mean, just look at the abortion controversy. It’s legal at the federal level, but now it’s an issue for the states. So it’s state by state by state where it’s getting resolved.

Danny Karon [00:20:56]:
So there’s your example of how state, law can change from one state to the next. I I mean, Arizona just came out with its law. I mean, we’re we’re talking we’re we’re April or whatever. April 13, 2024. And they came out with, court came out with a law yesterday in Cali Illinois or oh, and Ohio. Where am I? This, it was by constitutional amendment. It was found to be constitutional. It depends on where you are.

Danny Karon [00:21:23]:
State law issues. Mhmm. Now the issue of, you know, moral obligation verse or, like, kinda call it even a biblical obligation, you you should do something against the right thing. Right? And if you don’t, you should get sued for not having done that. Best example is stepping off the curb. Right. Sorry, but that’s not how it works. You need a legal duty for liability or fault, for responsibility, for the potential to pay money or some sort of remuneration to somebody to attach.

Danny Karon [00:21:49]:
So in my case, had there not been a legal duty for somebody way down the chain to say something? And it was questionable. I mean, let me tell you. They said, no. There is. And I said, yes. There is. And that’s why lawyers are in business because you got something to fight about. But, you know, we fought over a legal duty.

Danny Karon [00:22:05]:
Mhmm. And they said it was not. Had it been strictly a moral duty because I hadn’t even found support for what I thought gave rise to a claim, then no way. And I thought it was only moral duty to begin with until I did it, well, legal research. Did do moral research. I didn’t legal research.

Lora Cheadle [00:22:18]:
Legal research. Right. Yes. Because if you’re reaching out for a lawyer, it’s a legal claim.

Danny Karon [00:22:24]:
Right.

Lora Cheadle [00:22:25]:
And that sounds

Danny Karon [00:22:26]:
so If it’s moral, I should talk to your pastor or rabbi. I mean, seriously. Different different arena.

Lora Cheadle [00:22:32]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And on the flip side of that, because I feel like we’ve kind of driven down this road of there is no duty. There is no duty. It’s not a claim. On the flip side, so often there is a claim, and we don’t realize it. If you if your partner’s a affair partner is stalking you, if your partner’s partner’s affair partner is coming to the school and talking to your kids, If they are doing things to you, I mean, the whole fatal attraction bunny boiler.

Lora Cheadle [00:23:01]:
If somebody’s doing things to you, you might have a claim against them. You might have some legal protection to protect yourself and your family.

Danny Karon [00:23:10]:
Sure. And how about extending that to the online environment? I mean, if someone’s doxing you or defaming you online, I mean, there’s all sorts of things. And just because you’re in a different context, like online, doesn’t mean the regular laws don’t apply. Now they might not have caught up to the online experience yet, and there might not be direct parallels, but we draw comparisons and analogies. That’s where lawyers’ brains start kicking in, and we come up with theories that we think might work to provide a claim and a remedy. But you’re absolutely right. I see all the time people just take it where a company screws them over or, you know, rental company keeps the damage deposit or charges them for, you know, an easy pass or something that they didn’t sign up for. It’s like, oh, you know, I just guess I guess I I guess I must have signed up for it.

Danny Karon [00:23:59]:
Right. You know what? Okay. Here’s here’s a good one. Here’s a great one. My son, he has some he’s in college. He’s got 3 friends who rented a house. And they made a bit of a mess of the house, and the landlord threw him out. And the landlord said, just get out of here.

Danny Karon [00:24:17]:
Sign this, amended amended lease just to terminate it as of today. I’m not gonna charge you for anything. They said fine. Next thing you know, they get a bill for $30,000 supportedly based supposed supportedly supposedly based on a contractor’s review of the premises even though there wasn’t even documentation to support that, and the landlord wanted $30,000. Wow. Holy cow. So they called me, and I first thing I did was I said, let me see the lease. And I read the lease.

Danny Karon [00:24:49]:
And here’s an ex here’s a perfect example. One of the things the landlord wanted, money for was when the realtor who leased the house to the the kids was on-site at the end of the of the, tenancy, she saw a cat. And there was a clause in the contract that said, if you have a cat on premises on premises, it’s $500 a day. And they’d had the place for 3 months. He added $1500. That was part of the 30,000 dollars. Oh. So I read the the the list, and I saw reference to a cat.

Danny Karon [00:25:21]:
And I got to thinking, now this isn’t legal. This is just common sense. I thought, you know what? She saw a cat. How does she know the cat was there more than just that day? How does she know the cat was even theirs? How does she know the cat even stayed there any measurable amount of time? There’s just a cat for a day. So I said, there’s no proof of anything related to this cat having stayed there for 3 months. Never mind this clause. Actually, on account of this clause, you don’t get anything because you need to you have the cat needs to stay there. You said it yourself.

Danny Karon [00:25:50]:
You have no proof. I said, $1500 that comes off the top. We chanced and chipped and chiseled away at it till we got down to $648 for, like, a couple of months water bill because everything else was nonsense, and that didn’t take a lawyer to discern. It took somebody reading the lease. So you might wonder what happened. So about, oh, I don’t know, maybe 3 weeks ago, I keyed the address into Zillow, took a look. The landlord had renovated the whole place. He was gonna sell the thing, you know, just on the market.

Danny Karon [00:26:22]:
He wanted my guys to underwrite his renovation because he pulled up everything that he was, supposedly gonna have, you know, have them fixed. Yeah. So that’s nonsense. He never got back to me for good reason. Didn’t even accept the $647, and they got out of it for free. So you don’t have to be a lawyer to look the extra step to see whether the documents you’ve had to sign and know. And I said to these guys, did you read your contract? You didn’t read it, did you? Like, no. He didn’t.

Danny Karon [00:26:50]:
So, of course, he didn’t read that. You’re about your college, you numbskulls. You gotta read this stuff or have somebody read this stuff. I told my son, let me read your contract, your lease before you sign it. And you know what? He signed it anyway. Never let me read it. But anyway

Lora Cheadle [00:27:02]:
It’s not.

Danny Karon [00:27:03]:
That’s a perfectly suitable thing you can do on your own. These little comments says little elbow grease, little investigation to check on Zillow, see if the guy re you know, renovated the place and didn’t really need your money and put together a letter, and they will never come calling again. And they haven’t come common sense.

Lora Cheadle [00:27:19]:
Yeah. I love that you went to common sense and to doing it yourself because you’re right. Yes. There’s legalese and contracts. Yes. There may be 1 or 2 paragraphs where you go, I have no idea. But if you pick through it and stay out of fight, flight, or freeze and can just read and think, oh, this doesn’t make sense.

Danny Karon [00:27:38]:
And if it doesn’t make

Lora Cheadle [00:27:39]:
sense yeah.

Danny Karon [00:27:40]:
Right. Need to mention a letter. If you’re the fly in the ointment, if if your landlord’s picking on 3, 4, 5 tenants and you’re the one who pushes back, believe me, you’re pushed off to the side. He doesn’t need to deal with you. No. Focus on the others. Exactly. Proactive.

Danny Karon [00:27:54]:
You have rights. They’re out there if you just look for them.

Lora Cheadle [00:27:58]:
Mhmm. So speaking of being proactive, talking on both sides of the coin here. 1, proof. If somebody’s bothering you, screenshots, saved emails. What are the kinds of things that do constitute proof? What should people be saving and keeping?

Danny Karon [00:28:16]:
Alright. I’ll give you another real example, and this is happening in real time. I was working on this before I got on this podcast with you today. My wife was in an auto accident. We had a perfectly valid policy for our car. As you’d expect, the company is denying coverage. I mean, you gotta be kidding me. So what did I need to prove that we had coverage? I needed the contract.

Danny Karon [00:28:37]:
I needed the emails. I needed, boy, what else? Well, the coverage denial letter, I ended up putting together a 15 exhibit compendium of proof to demonstrate why not that, which is the second time I’ve used that phrase. Tell them that and they won’t believe you. Show them why, and they’ll have no choice but to agree. Showing the adjuster why we do indeed have proof and why there ought to be coverage. I’ve tried reaching them in my counselor, coverage counsel. That’s another discipline, insurance coverage counsel. I happen to know the best coverage guy in the state of Ohio.

Danny Karon [00:29:19]:
It’s kind of a professional privilege. You know? I know these guys. And, he got involved with me, and they’ve ghosted both of us. So enough is enough. I now have to file a complaint in federal court, suing my insurer for improperly denying me coverage. And I’m gonna attach all 15 exhibits, which again would be the policy, the declination letter, a bunch of emails. I I had some discussions with my claim my, my agent. Mhmm.

Danny Karon [00:29:51]:
And he claimed I didn’t. So I went to t mobile.com, and I mined my cell phone records to find reference to the calls I made to him on the date I made them. And my proof demonstrate that I made them for no other reason than to ensure I had coverage. Because there were no other insurance related issues on the map at the time. I had to disprove that there were. Those were more emails. I mean, it was a whole forensic undertaking, and it was a pain in the neck. But you know what? There’s a lot of money at stake on this one, and I’m I gotta do what’s necessary to protect us.

Danny Karon [00:30:23]:
Now can you be that short of a lawyer? This one, no. This one’s going to federal court. Right. But with a reasonable insurer who plays fair, you’d like to think they would do what’s right

Lora Cheadle [00:30:35]:
That’s what I would

Danny Karon [00:30:36]:
on how undeniable the proof is, and that’s something you actually could do on your own.

Lora Cheadle [00:30:41]:
Absolutely. Okay. So I can hear people’s minds turning and thinking, that makes sense. But you know what? When my partner left, he took the laptop, and I don’t have the policies or I don’t know where things are kept.

Danny Karon [00:30:56]:
Help. Mhmm. Well What do you do? There are only so many moving parts in a relationship. I mean, you’ve got your finances. You’ve got your auto insurance. You’ve got your credit cards. You’ve got your mortgage. And it would would probably be a good idea on the front end to get a handle on who the vendors are.

Danny Karon [00:31:16]:
Is it Rocket Mortgage? Is it Allstate? Is it Merrill Lynch? You know, those sorts of things. And who the names of your contacts are there? Because you wanna call that person. You don’t wanna be left in the dark and flailing around. Because I know all too often, the guy’s the one who handles all the finances, and it’s totally unfair. It’s totally imbalanced, and you feel totally disabled and helpless, and you should never be in that position. My wife and I talk all the time about where things are and who’s running. And we have a we have a meeting coming up on Tuesday with our, trust and estates lawyer. Get a trust.

Danny Karon [00:31:48]:
That’s important for state planning. And, you know, we’re both gonna be on it, of course, because she, like I, need to understand precisely how our trust work. I’m not a trust lawyer. I mean, I do class actions. So, you know, if I learned anything in practice, it’s that when you’re getting into some kind of complicated areas, find somebody who knows them better than you do, because I don’t know a lot about a lot of stuff.

Lora Cheadle [00:32:12]:
Right. And I appreciate that you said that because, so many of my women are like, I’d like to try to work it out with my partner. I’d like to try. I don’t know if it’s gonna work. I don’t know how long I’m gonna try, but I’d like to try. Mhmm. And what I’m always telling them to do is, in that time, start collecting documents, start getting names of companies, start getting policy numbers, get get some money, getting a credit card in your own name, start doing some things just so you’re prepared in the event that things go south.

Danny Karon [00:32:45]:
Yeah. And even if they don’t go south, it’s something you should know. Don’t feel guilty about it. Like, you’re working behind the scene, some cloak and dagger kind of vibe. I mean, you’re not. You’re just doing what’s necessary to be secured and comfortable in your own kind of financial being, and you deserve that. Yeah. Another thing you might wanna do, and I suspect you talk about this, is, take a look at the best divorce lawyers in town and give them a call.

Danny Karon [00:33:11]:
Because the minute they talk to you is the minute they’re conflicted and can’t talk to him. Yep. So consider that.

Lora Cheadle [00:33:16]:
That’s a good one. Thank you. And then kind of on the flip side of this, what not to do When you are hurt, when you’ve just been betrayed, when you’re emotional, when you’re doing all these things, what are some of the things not to do?

Danny Karon [00:33:32]:
Well, I’m no stranger to just kind of the emotional wellness space Mhmm. They’re trying to stay in wise mind and be focused and serene and thoughtful, and that’s the place between being completely regimented and rigid and being completely totally unhinged. Right. Know what you are after and what you wanna get and what your goals are, but you need to do it from a place a contemplated place. And what I wouldn’t do is start canceling accounts. I wouldn’t start blabbing. I wouldn’t start defaming anybody. I wouldn’t pot.

Danny Karon [00:34:04]:
I wouldn’t start putting him on notice so that he does that, which we’ve just described you wanna do and gets the scoop on you, which could already be happening, it is a cloak and dagger kind of vibe, and it’s really sad. I mean, I’ve not been divorced, and I don’t wanna get divorced. And Nope. But it’s hard. It’s really it’s really tough, to work stuff through. And, you know, all I would and this maybe is out of kind of out of my area, so to speak, but, I just recommend, you know, working as hard as you can to work it out. And we’ve, you know, worked stuff out for it’s it’s it’s been 31 years, and it’s still going fine. Yeah.

Danny Karon [00:34:41]:
Kids are out of the house.

Lora Cheadle [00:34:43]:
Which helps.

Danny Karon [00:34:44]:
Yeah. And my son said that’s when I I could see you guys separating. Like, why is that? Because you’re gonna be have you’re gonna have too much of each other. I’m like, I was kinda looking forward to it.

Lora Cheadle [00:34:53]:
Exactly. No.

Danny Karon [00:34:54]:
This is the good part. Yeah. This is supposed to be fun.

Lora Cheadle [00:34:57]:
Yeah. Exactly. Now I like what you said. You said, don’t cancel accounts, and then something you said is don’t defame. Let’s talk a little bit about that because you’re going to be mad at the affair partner. You’re gonna be mad at other people, and you had mentioned stuff online. And I know a lot of people wanna get online and start sharing details and saying things about the other person. Say a little bit more about that.

Lora Cheadle [00:35:23]:
What

Danny Karon [00:35:23]:
idea.

Lora Cheadle [00:35:24]:
What is defamation in the first place? People might not

Danny Karon [00:35:27]:
I just mentioned I mentioned the American Bar Association earlier in that program that I ran. I just this is so coincident. I just so happen to have, the ABA Journal here, and I kept this one because it’s got an article on defamation. You know? And I and I I wanna read this because I’m actually, coming out with a book to support the brand, and I’m populating with lots of chapters on different legal issues, and one of them is gonna be defamation. And, here it says, liable cases are on the rise and increasingly politicized. So, you know, there are very specific elements or points you have to prove to be found liable for defamation. Just ask Amber Heard. Now this is a state law issue, so they’re generally the same, but they have some variation among the states.

Danny Karon [00:36:15]:
And I can’t remember there was, I think, 7 of them in Virginia, which is where her case was tried with Virginia.

Lora Cheadle [00:36:21]:
I think so.

Danny Karon [00:36:21]:
And she didn’t have any aptitude for what they were. She just popped that thing up in the washingtonpost.com and just figured, let the chips fall. Wow. Could she if she can if she could only take that one back for I think it only settled for, like, a couple $1,000,000 only. Right? Only. I can’t remember the specific elements. If you Google elements of defamation, you will get a general description of what you should not do, and it’s essentially lying about somebody, and truth is a defense defamation, but don’t get in court to defend the truth. Alright? The the the guy really is a no.

Danny Karon [00:36:54]:
You you don’t wanna be there. Trust me. It’s it’s not worth the candle. And it needs to have, but Donald Trump just sued Juris Stephanopoulos and and ABC News for defamation too. I just did a case on that for Fox, and I did go through the elements.

Lora Cheadle [00:37:08]:
And it and it doesn’t exactly matter. What I like about it, what you said is Google elements of, because that’s a way that you can at least educate yourself. Elements of, whatever it is, defamation, elements of. That’s helpful.

Danny Karon [00:37:24]:
Very easy one. Very easy one. Let’s see. And and if there’s anything on your mind, elements of breach of contract, elements of negligence. I mean, everything every claim legal claim here. Every legal claim has elements or things you need to prove to a court’s or jury satisfaction before you’ll win. And if you don’t know whether you have a claim or you’re wondering did is there some legal wrong that I have a right to a a right to remedy? Just pop up what happened to you, plug in elements, and see what Google has to say. Yeah.

Danny Karon [00:37:57]:
And, you know, the weather the weather was cloudy when it’s supposed to be sunny. Can I sue for that? No. Somebody hit me when I stepped up the crosswalk. I noticed he was texting. Can I sue for that? Yes. That’s a negligence claim. Mhmm. How much that stuff? Mhmm.

Danny Karon [00:38:13]:
Mhmm. Somebody smeared me online, and it wasn’t true, and they brought my kids into it. Can I sue for that? Defamation. Yeah. Yeah. Stuff like that.

Lora Cheadle [00:38:21]:
Yeah. Yeah. But somebody smears you online, and it is true.

Danny Karon [00:38:25]:
Oh, it is true. Well, there’s your defense to defamation case. It’s the truth. Mhmm.

Lora Cheadle [00:38:31]:
But you’re right. Do you want to yeah. But do you wanna go there?

Danny Karon [00:38:36]:
Depends on what’s at stake. Right? Mhmm. Amber Heard said it was true by Johnny Depp. You know what? Who determines the truth? The jury. You could think it’s true. Jury disagrees. It doesn’t matter. You’re still wrong, and you’re still gonna lose.

Danny Karon [00:38:49]:
So be careful.

Lora Cheadle [00:38:51]:
And I love that you said that because there is such a there is it’s such a tight rope.

Danny Karon [00:38:55]:
Mhmm.

Lora Cheadle [00:38:55]:
You have a legal remedy. Maybe you do. Were you in the right? Maybe you are. Do you have enough proof? Will you be believed? Is it worth the cost? Is it worth the time?

Danny Karon [00:39:08]:
Do you have enough money for a lawyer to pursue this for you? Is there enough at stake for the lawyer to take a third as a fee to pursue it for you? I mean, there are a lot of considerations. There are a lot of sad cases where maybe there’s my my my my insure my auto insurance case. Let’s say there’s $50,000 at stake. I don’t wanna do it, but you know what? I’m not gonna find a lawyer to do it. I’m not paying a lawyer 3.54100 an hour, and no lawyer’s taking a third of $50 or something. So you know who’s gonna be stuck doing it? Me. Right. But I’m doing it anyway.

Danny Karon [00:39:39]:
They’re pissed off. Mhmm. And I’m right. Exactly. What they are. I’ve got the proof.

Lora Cheadle [00:39:45]:
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. Here’s the other thing. Now that we’ve educated people a little bit, hey. You can Google elements of. You can figure it out.

Lora Cheadle [00:39:53]:
You know that there’s small claims court. You know that there’s different courts for different issues. You know that you maybe could reach out to attorneys. How do you tell who is a nice lovable lawyer, and who’s gonna drag you through the mud? How can you tell if your lawyer’s a good one?

Danny Karon [00:40:11]:
I actually have a video on that. I think it’s called something like how to find a lawyer.

Lora Cheadle [00:40:15]:
So Let’s attach that to the show. That would be great.

Danny Karon [00:40:19]:
There are a couple of sites out there that are credible you can go to that rate lawyers, and they set them suitably, and you can feel comfortable and confident in the results. One of them is avvo, avvo.com. Mhmm. One of them is Super Lawyers. I think it’s Super Lawyers dotcom.

Lora Cheadle [00:40:36]:
I think it is too.

Danny Karon [00:40:38]:
Yeah. And they’re both high end. I mean, they really do their homework. So if you need a, if you have if you this is the most common example, so I’ll just give it. You know, you’re you’re you’re hit you’re in a car crash. It’s a neg it’s a tort claim. A tort is illegal wrong. So, getting hit by somebody who’s who’s careless wasn’t paying attention, that’s legally wrong, so that’s a tort.

Danny Karon [00:40:57]:
And you need a tort lawyer, And the claim you wanna sue for is negligence, carelessness. The driver is careless. She was texting or on her phone or whatever. So you get them to say super lawyers or avo, and you’re in Denver, and you plug in negligence lawyers, tort lawyers, personal injuries lawyers in Denver, get a whole bunch of them, start making your calls. Now it might be a function of who’s busy, who’s high end, who’s got time, who’s interested, because let’s say you sprained your ankle, and it’s not that big a deal. You didn’t even didn’t even go to the hospital. You just kinda walked away. You wrapped in.

Danny Karon [00:41:32]:
You were fine. Now your damages, meaning the money you owed for what happened to you, not that much. And believe me, you don’t wanna be a high end tort victim. I mean, that is not the kind of that’s not the way we make money. Never mind those billboards you see in the highway. I got $800,000. I saw 1 yesterday. That is not how you wanna get $800,000.

Danny Karon [00:41:49]:
You are messed up for $800,000. K? So you’ll probably find some low end lawyer to take it if anybody. If, God forbid, there’s a fracture, you break your leg, you break your back, you die, God forbid, and your spouse is, and you’re a surgeon with 4 kids in a burgeoning you know, in a in a blooming practice, that’s a big case, and lawyers will be jumping at that. So those are the ends of the spectrum. You know? Who’s gonna take a case within those ends? I don’t know. I can’t know. And who’s gonna take your case? I don’t know what happened yet. Nothing.

Danny Karon [00:42:23]:
We’re hypothetical here. But that’s the space you’re in when you’re looking for a lawyer. And that’s not a bad space. At least you know a resource to go to where you have choices now.

Lora Cheadle [00:42:33]:
Yeah. And I really like and appreciate that you say you have choices because when you’re scared, when something has happened in your over your head and you’re like, I don’t know what this is, it’s easy to feel like the first expert I find is the right place to go.

Danny Karon [00:42:50]:
Mhmm.

Lora Cheadle [00:42:50]:
And there are many different lawyers with many different personalities, and there’s never just one.

Danny Karon [00:42:56]:
Oh, there’s so many. They’re falling from the trees. Talk to a few. If they’ll talk to you, that is. If it’s a low value claim and nobody talks to you, that kinda tells you the story. But if their lawyer is interested, and you don’t want a case where lawyers are interested, then something bad happened to you. No. You don’t.

Danny Karon [00:43:12]:
What? That hap it happens. Right? Like like you’re going through divorce. You know? And there there’s stakes here, and there’s, you know, there’s a high net worth couple and, they’re a bunch of kids and a lot of property. A lot of lawyers will be involved, and they’re not doing it it on the come, on a contingency fee contingency fee basis where they’re taking percentage usually a third. They do it by the hour. And now you gotta start wondering and, you know you know, getting anxious about how much it’s gonna cost and who’s gonna pay because it’s 4:50 an hour, which isn’t unreasonable.

Lora Cheadle [00:43:46]:
No. Not at all.

Danny Karon [00:43:47]:
That can break you in a week. Yeah. Gotta be smart. So so so maybe you settle for somebody who’s a little cheaper, and you get what you pay for, but at least you got somebody. Yeah. And you get somebody who’s good, and he he or she nails it quickly. I don’t you know, these are these are the tough choices.

Lora Cheadle [00:44:04]:
Yeah. Okay. Couple of other things that I wanna talk about. First, you have talked about doing things pro bono, and that’s where a lawyer does something for free. They take a claim for free. Where are places that people could reach out to to find out if there’s a pro bono lawyer? I know when I was in law school, we had a legal clinic, and it was hard to get in, but it was an option. So reaching out to a law school might be an option. Where else can people go to find pro bono attorneys?

Danny Karon [00:44:32]:
2 places come to mind. 1 is, you know, major cities have law schools. Often, the law schools have legal clinics, and the clinic specialize in different areas, like an appellate clinic or maybe a housing clinic or something like that. You can call the school and find out. It’s a tough group to get into because they only have so many law students who can Yeah. They they can put on this. But major cities often or or or or, marketplaces. You don’t have to be in the city, but they all often have legal aid societies.

Danny Karon [00:45:01]:
Mhmm. You call legal aid depending on their, what what’s the word? Their, well, how many cases they have their their how how many cases they have in queue and their staffing issues because it’s a lot of of, volunteer lawyers who make legal aid run. They may or might or may not take your case, but legal aid is a great resource to go to. Yeah. And other Yeah. Go ahead.

Lora Cheadle [00:45:28]:
No. Go ahead.

Danny Karon [00:45:29]:
Oh, I mean, you know, I mean, the the landlord tenant thing I did, You know, that that yeah. That’s a pro bono. If you have a friend who’s a lawyer, maybe they do something on the house because as a courtesy,

Lora Cheadle [00:45:42]:
Mhmm. Which is

Danny Karon [00:45:42]:
a nice thing if it’s not gonna take up a terrible amount of time. Mhmm. So that may that’s kind of a not a third option, maybe 2 and a half, kind of second and a half option.

Lora Cheadle [00:45:51]:
Yeah. What about the online places like the legal Zoom and things like that? What what what is your opinion of that? What can people reasonably expect from a service like?

Danny Karon [00:46:02]:
Well, I found that those are good for forms. If you need a standard lease or a standard contract or a standard promissory note or something like that, you’ll pay and they’ll give you they’ll you’ll you’ll you’ll key in the facts, and then they’ll populate a form, and they’ll give it to you. And, you know, it’s kind of a one size fits all thing. It really ought to be a function of state law, like we’ve said. If, you know, both parties are in, say, Ohio, it ought to be drafted pursuant to Ohio law. Maybe one’s in Ohio and one’s in Colorado. Mhmm. Yeah.

Danny Karon [00:46:32]:
They get into dicey inter intrastate law legal issues. So that can get dicey, and that no form is gonna be able to tackle. Yeah. But in terms of an ongoing representation, like if you’re hitting a car, you’re not gonna find somebody like that online. You’re gonna find the forms. And, yeah, I’ll just confess where I’ve been in a space I’m not comfortable with, and it’s been late, and I wanna knock something out, and I can’t call a friend for a form. Mhmm. I’ve gotten on one of those things.

Danny Karon [00:46:59]:
I’ve done, like, the free, free enrollment. I’ve gotten the free form.

Lora Cheadle [00:47:03]:
Yes. Exactly. Yeah.

Danny Karon [00:47:04]:
You know, I got a quick contract out of it. Next day, of course, my lawyer sees what I did and gets mad at me. Like, what are you doing? This is my day. What is this? You know, I gotta do this. Gotta unwind this. Right. So Right. Get what you pay for.

Lora Cheadle [00:47:16]:
Yeah. Yeah. You absolutely do. And then you alluded to this earlier, but I also wanna talk about this, the difference between legal guidance and legal advice, because you had mentioned that. And as a lawyer, the work that I do too, I will offer legal guidance to my clients because my clients are all over the US. I’m licensed in California. I’m licensed in Colorado. I will give you legal guidance, but I don’t know each state’s specific rule.

Lora Cheadle [00:47:44]:
So talk a and you had mentioned that. So talk a little bit more about what is guidance versus advice, and why do we care?

Danny Karon [00:47:51]:
Yeah. I’d be happy to. I was really keen on this when I started my brand because there’s an ethics rule that I think exists in every state that says, lawyers can’t, I I I don’t wanna phrase it the wrong way, but it has to do with advice. You can’t just give pet illegal advice. There’s gotta be a relationship. I got it a little bit wrong, but just stick with me. So I called the, chief I forget what his official title is. Chief attorney chief counsel of the, Ohio, Bar Association’s ethics division.

Danny Karon [00:48:22]:
I totally got that, but he’s down in Columbus. He runs the ethics, department. And I run everything past him. I don’t do anything without asking him, first. That get it involves ethics. I’m really careful about doing things the right way. And I said, I wanna help promote people’s need of wellness, but I’m concerned about giving advice. And he said, well, giving advice would be is if you’re talking to somebody 1 on 1 and you’re advising them what they should do.

Danny Karon [00:48:47]:
He said, your message out of these if you’re giving it in an auditorium. Just broad strokes, legal guidance, just suggestions, what you can do, what works for you. Do not tell them what to do. I have never told anybody what to do because that’s not my job. It’s not my role. They’re not hiring me to advise them. No. Just looking for a little bit of guidance to help, you know, run their lives a little better.

Lora Cheadle [00:49:08]:
Yes. So

Danny Karon [00:49:08]:
I’m really mindful of that.

Lora Cheadle [00:49:10]:
Yes. So people can reach out to you, to me, to other people who are similar to us and get information. Like, is maintenance still a thing? Is maintenance different than alimony? Is there child support? Do I have a ride as attendant as attendant? Wow. My husband dropped me off of our fitness plan, and I still wanna go to the gym. Like, they can reach out to people and say, is this a legal claim? Who would I talk to? What are some of the rules around this? But they are not being told in your case. You call. Yeah.

Danny Karon [00:49:45]:
I say, here’s the law. Here’s the space. Here’s what’s happening in that space. You decide what you wanna do. I’m not telling you anything about what you gotta do. Just give me tools.

Lora Cheadle [00:49:57]:
Yeah. And I think that’s invaluable because it lets people determine for themselves what’s worth it and what’s not worth it.

Danny Karon [00:50:09]:
I think you’re right. I mean, you have to decide if you wanna file against somebody who doxed you or something. Mhmm. I would I would never say the elements for a doxing claim are a, b, and c. They have in here. You have a claim, and you should sue. No. It’s not my business.

Danny Karon [00:50:25]:
You’re not calling me to ask me whether you should sue. You’re asking about what doxing means.

Lora Cheadle [00:50:29]:
Exactly.

Danny Karon [00:50:30]:
Yeah. Honestly, you can look you can get on Google and find out that way too if you want. Yeah. It’s a little less approachable because I’m somebody telling it to you. But what you do is up to you, and that’s fine. It’s fine. Yeah. Your will still matters.

Lora Cheadle [00:50:43]:
Absolutely. It is. Well, in wrapping up, I wanna say how much I appreciate the whole idea of legal wellness, because you’re absolutely right. The best way to take care of yourself is to stay out of court in the 1st place. Mhmm. It’s to realize, really, I should not be doing this to somebody. This is not a good idea. I can’t go over and sledgehammer the affair partner’s car.

Lora Cheadle [00:51:08]:
I can’t go over and slash her tires. I can’t physically attack my husband. I mean, I can, but I probably really shouldn’t.

Danny Karon [00:51:16]:
Mhmm. Yeah. How about just breathe? Breathe a little more. It usually come down.

Lora Cheadle [00:51:22]:
Yeah. So where can people learn more about you? And you had mentioned your videos. I know you have a lot of great videos that cover a lot of different, a lot of different things from content like that, picking a lawyer. Where can people start finding this information?

Danny Karon [00:51:39]:
Well, I’m on all the platforms. If you go to my website to start your lovablelawyer.com, you’ll see everything there and more. Got a YouTube channel on Instagram and TikTok and Facebook. So everything is out there for you to see and appreciate and use as you like. And if you have questions, you can always ping me, and I get back to everybody. I’m not I mean, in keeping with the brand, I’m totally approachable, and it matters to help everybody because I know what it means to have a question and be angsting and like, a medical question usually in my setting. Right? Because legal questions don’t kill me like this. But, you know, you have a question for doctor and you ask it on a Friday, you gotta wait till Monday.

Danny Karon [00:52:18]:
It, like, it ruins your weekend. It kills you.

Lora Cheadle [00:52:20]:
It does.

Danny Karon [00:52:21]:
I I call people back all the time. If and I apologize. I’m sorry if I’m calling you on a Saturday. Is that okay? Oh my god. Yes. It’s fine. Sure. Well, you you know, you wanted to know, and here’s here’s somewhere you can maybe learn some more information.

Danny Karon [00:52:33]:
Yeah. And, I’m pretty good for that too.

Lora Cheadle [00:52:36]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Well, thank you for showing up in that space. Thank you for being there for people. Dotcom. Yeah. Because you’re absolutely right. We are all entitled to access to justice.

Lora Cheadle [00:52:46]:
And sometimes it’s just a quick question. Is this a claim? Am I crazy? Does this matter?

Danny Karon [00:52:53]:
I couldn’t agree more, and it’s so it’s so elusive and and and mysterious to people, and it needn’t be. Because, you know, we’re just people trying to solve problems together. Yeah. It was that.

Lora Cheadle [00:53:03]:
Yeah. That was perfect. Thank you. I will put all the links to your social, your site, specifically that video, and thank you so

Danny Karon [00:53:11]:
much. You’re welcome. It was a pleasure.

Lora Cheadle [00:53:13]:
Yeah. And listeners, I really hope that this was illuminative to you, because it is complicated. There is a lot. Yeah. Jurisdiction, different courts. And my ask for you is not to shut down, not to start thinking, I don’t know. I don’t know. Just to be like, oh, hey.

Lora Cheadle [00:53:31]:
All I need is clarity, and there are people out there just like Danny who can help give you clarity. So have an amazing week, and as usual, always remember to FLAUNT! exactly who you are because who you are is always more than enough.

Narrator [00:53:51]:
Wait a minute. Before you go on, I’ve got something for you that you are going to love. It’s the Sparkle After Betrayal Recovery Guide, a downloadable guide that shows you exactly how to untangle yourself from the past, powerfully reclaim your sexy, and re choreograph your future one step at a time. The best part, it’s free, and downloading it gives you access to our monthly support calls as well. What are you waiting for? Break out of the pain and get your sparkle on today. Go to naked self worth dotcom. That’s www.nakedselfworth.com and get your guide

Danny Karon [00:54:45]:
today.

Narrator [00:54:48]:
Tune in next time to FLAUNT!, find your sparkle and create a life you love after infidelity or betrayal with Lora Cheadle every Wednesday at 7 AM and 7 PM Eastern Standard Time on syndicated DreamVision 7 Radio Network. Uncover the truth of what’s possible for you on the other side of betrayal and develop the skills and strategies necessary to embrace the future and flourish today. Download your free betrayal recovery toolkit at betrayalrecoveryguide.com.