Life After Betrayal: A Client’s Real Story of Infidelity, Boundaries & Healing

Lora Cheadle [00:00:01]:
You're listening to Flaunt. Find your sparkle and create a life you love after Infidelity or Betrayal. A podcast for women who've been betrayed by their intimate partner and want to turn their devastation into an invitation to reclaim themselves and their worth. Tune in weekly so you can start making sense of it all and learn how to be okay on the inside, no matter what goes on on the outside. Download your free betrayal Recovery toolkit@betrayalrecoveryguide.com.

Lora Cheadle [00:00:35]:
Reaching out to connect with somebody after infidelity, I think, is one of the hardest things to do. I know for me personally, I had all of these fears and judgments and thoughts in my head, and on the one hand, I desperately needed help and I needed information and I needed tools and I needed all of that. And on the other hand, it was like, I can't talk to this about anybody, to anybody else. I am horrified. I am ashamed. I feel like I'm the only one, and I don't know what to do. Today I am bringing you one of my amazing clients, and her name is Eve. And we're going to walk you through a coaching session.

Lora Cheadle [00:01:26]:
We're going to walk you through what it's like to reach out and to get help, and she's going to tell you a little bit about her story and then ask for support. And we're just going to kind of walk through this so you can, first of all, maybe have an aha moment that. Oh, my gosh. That's what I needed to hear. This applies to my situation. Or you'll be like, oh, I get it.

Eve [00:01:55]:
I get it.

Lora Cheadle [00:01:56]:
This is what help looks like. I'm okay. I'm safe. So whatever it brings for you, it is my wish and intention that you get exactly what you need. So welcome to the show, Eve. I'm really, really honored that you're here.

Eve [00:02:15]:
Thank you so much for having me.

Lora Cheadle [00:02:17]:
You're welcome.

Eve [00:02:18]:
Love everything that you do. Been listening to you from the moment I found you, and it was such a. Just to hear someone else say, oh, my gosh, then they're done. That and something that was even kind of similar to my situation, because that's what you do. You look for someone else. Oh, did someone else make it through? And if someone else did, then maybe I can you look for that?

Lora Cheadle [00:02:37]:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And it's so. It's so empowering. I mean, it's not that it's misery. Misery loves company, but it's like, I'm normal, and if they did it, I can do it, too.

Eve [00:02:50]:
Exactly.

Eve [00:02:51]:
Yeah.

Lora Cheadle [00:02:52]:
So I'd love for you to start by just giving a little bit of a background of your story and where you are today.

Eve [00:03:03]:
My story actually begins quite a while ago, back in 2011, when I discovered an email on my husband's computer. I was doing something for insurance for, for us, and I found an email of him back and forth with, with someone. And I did confront him. And at that time it was, it had just like, that was just the very beginning of something that happened. I had caught it really early. And at that point he had told me that he did have one affair at that point. We had been married almost 10 years, but that, that was only one time. It was a one off thing, no big deal.

Eve [00:03:42]:
And we talked about things and he told me some stuff that, you know, had been going on with him and we kind, you know, I of course forgave him because I love him. And we continued on with our life and we had a little girl at the time and, you know, life is life and sometimes you don't realize what the problem really was, nor did I have all the information that I thought. So you fast forward that to 2017, when he obviously did have another relationship. Only this time he left like it was a real relationship. And he left and he was gone. And I was devastated. You know, we'd been married at that point, you know, 15, 16 years, and had my little girl with me and was determined that, okay, this is the same, not over. I just, I just know, I know this is.

Eve [00:04:34]:
I thought maybe it's a midlife crisis. You know, I had all these little thoughts. I started looking at midlife crisis online and looking up everything else. And then you get the one end where they say, oh my God, if he cheats on you, it's over. Forget it. Leave them like everybody tells you to, to do this. And then everybody else tells you, you know, they give you all these excuses and all these reasons. And I did find, I did find someone online that said, kind of put the blame on me and said, well, you didn't obviously do the right things and this is what you need to do to make it work.

Eve [00:05:04]:
So I did all that, I followed all of that. And he did come back. It was about a year later, maybe a little less. He did come back. Fast forward again to 2023, and he did the same thing and left again. This time I found you and I found some other people similar to you. And what struck me, what you, what struck me with what you said, is that what happened with you and Sean and you said, we weren't done yet. I knew we weren't done.

Eve [00:05:41]:
And at this point, in between the 2017 and 2023, I had finally found out everything that had happened in his life, life that I was not aware of. I knew he had a bad childhood, but I did not know the extent of what happened to him as a child. The trauma, all that stuff that went into it. I did not realize any of that. And that changed a lot of things. And I kept thinking, what would happen to us as. As a couple and as people if we were both healthy? Because we always look to our daughter, who happens to be amazing. And we've always said that she took the best of both of us and that's what's in her.

Eve [00:06:28]:
I said, well, if you ever want to know what happens when you and I are both healthy, look at our daughter. I love that, you know, and why can't we do that? And he has since returned home. It took quite a bit longer. We had a couple of bumps along the way where he was going to come home last year in 2024. And then I found out he was still talking with her. And I found it for my daughter, which was really difficult. She called me and said that she had seen it, like this little Snapchat and stuff. And I was at work and this is going to be hard.

Lora Cheadle [00:07:08]:
Just breathe.

Eve [00:07:11]:
I was at work when I found. And she called me and she was like. She was so upset, you know, mom. Oh, my gosh. And I saw this post, and it says this and this and. And him and I had made a pact that when he came home on the. Anytime that she. Messages, anytime that he was supposed to tell me, and obviously that didn't happen.

Eve [00:07:28]:
And the day's going on and on. It's going on, and I'm getting more and more upset. And I grabbed the. The scotch from my office and I started to drink it, and I ended up with a DUI and in jail overnight. And it was devastating, and it was humiliating and it was shameful.

Speaker E [00:07:50]:
And, you know, my daughter and I.

Eve [00:07:52]:
It was just the worst day of my entire life. I mean, honestly. But then after that, three weeks later, he left again.

Eve [00:08:02]:
Because.

Eve [00:08:03]:
And I know it was because of this, because it triggered all sorts of stuff with this childhood and everything else. So I had that. But like I said, I now, now here he's home. And he's been home since November, December of last year. He's been home. So here's where I said, our daughter's getting ready to go to college. Life has been Busy life has been crazy. I have done a lot of work on my end podcast.

Eve [00:08:28]:
Reading, journaling, breathing, talking to people, talking to friends, talking to myself, talking to him. And now I know the real hard work begins as far as he is concerned and us together. And I still truly believe that, you know, we haven't seen our best because we haven't been our best. And I just. And my family thinks I'm ridiculous. I've lost my best friend over it. She. You know, it's difficult when you feel like everybody's telling you you've made the wrong decision, and sometimes you feel like that.

Eve [00:09:06]:
Anytime I think about making a different decision, I don't feel peace. And I always know to go with my peace. And if my piece tells me a different thing tomorrow, then. But right now, this is where my peace is, and this is where I stand. And, you know, 25 years is a long time, and, you know, and I think of all the good stuff, and I know that there is there, but I also know that I can't control whether or not he does his healing. And that's hard.

Lora Cheadle [00:09:39]:
It is hard. It is hard. Thank you for sharing all of that, because there is such realness in that journey, you know, and. And it is hard to trust ourselves, trust our peace, when, yes, from the outside looking in, of course people are going to say, what are you doing? And what are you thinking? And it's hard to stand firm with what you believe. And then, I appreciate so much what you've done. You are connecting, you are talking to people, you are journaling. You're continuing to do this stuff. It's not like you're burying your head in the sand and crossing your fingers and saying, I sure hope this works out, you know, oh, poor guy.

Lora Cheadle [00:10:27]:
Lots of trauma. It's. You're very clear on, we are not our best. And that means I am not my best, and he is not at his best, and I'm willing to heal and see what happens. And if he's willing to heal, things could be great or not, because that's part of it, too. Sometimes people both heal and they look at each other and they're like, you know, I love you, I honor you, I respect you, but we don't need to be together. And how can we move forward now? Are we friends? Are we still partners? Are what? What are we? But it is about becoming our best selves and then having the strength to redefine whatever our relationship looks like from that vantage point of two healthy, whole, complete people.

Eve [00:11:27]:
Exactly. Yeah. I love what You've always said about how you guys. You and Sean got back together. You. You made a whole new marriage commitment. You made a whole new set of. Of do's and don'ts and wants and needs, and you started fresh.

Eve [00:11:42]:
Yeah.

Eve [00:11:42]:
Because to turn a bull over the past is always a terrible thing, and you can never get over it. You have to look forward.

Lora Cheadle [00:11:49]:
Right? Right.

Eve [00:11:51]:
Yeah. That.

Lora Cheadle [00:11:52]:
That old relationship is gone. If you choose to revive that, that's a choice between the two of you. But I don't know why anybody would want to revive.

Eve [00:12:02]:
No. No, thanks.

Lora Cheadle [00:12:03]:
Yeah, that's over. That's done. Who are we now? And then I also really appreciate Eve. Thank you so much just for sharing. You know, like, you drank. You got the dui. So often we let the choices that we make in a trauma state define us going forward. You know, I've had clients who have revenge cheated.

Lora Cheadle [00:12:28]:
You are not alone in the drinking. Like, people make all these choices when they're in trauma from a traumatic place in their body and in their brain. It's not who you are. It doesn't define you. It's a mistake, and it's okay. And sometimes we need everything pulled away from us in order for us to really see what's important. Who am I moving forward? What matters? And this is it, and this is not it.

Eve [00:13:01]:
I love you said that. Thank you. Because that's. That's something that just sticks with me, and. And the shame of it is. Is horrifying, you know, because that's not who I am. But yet I did what I did, and I know what I was feeling at the time. And I know had that not happened, this wouldn't be the case.

Eve [00:13:21]:
But I have made incredible. Like, my whole life has changed since then. I did lose my job, but I have not started my own business. So I have my own business. I have clients. I actually have more free time now than I've ever had. Making the same money I was before and being able to do things I love, like do theater. My daughter and I just finished doing a show together.

Eve [00:13:42]:
Oh.

Eve [00:13:43]:
So we got to have. Yes. We got to do that right before she leaves for college. So. And that was everything to me. I mean, I love doing theater, and to be able to share it with my daughter, who's going off to get her degree in theater, it was wonderful. And I never would have been able to do that. So even though that was a tragic, terrible thing, and I'm not saying, oh, my gosh, thank God it happened.

Eve [00:14:03]:
No, no. I took something terrible, and I'M like, I'm going to make something wonderful out of this, and I'm not going to go bury myself in the sand or hide in a corner. I have to do what I got to do. So I gotta pick myself up, breathe, dust myself off, and keep moving forward.

Eve [00:14:19]:
Yes, yes.

Lora Cheadle [00:14:21]:
So right on. And I want to talk about the beautiful mirror here. You got out of alignment with yourself and made a mistake, but it ended up bringing good. And your husband got out of alignment with himself based on his trauma, based on whatever, and made a horrible mistake, too. And you have the same agency that he has. You turned it into something good. You used it to grow. He can do that, too.

Lora Cheadle [00:14:55]:
We all can. And that. That recognition that we all do make horrible mistakes, it's what we do with it, and it's who we become afterwards. It's powerful.

Eve [00:15:09]:
Exactly. It is. It's also frightening, the fact that I'm not in control of that.

Lora Cheadle [00:15:16]:
I know, right?

Eve [00:15:18]:
You know, because that's the hard thing, you know, when a lot of us women, we tend to want to control things, and because it makes us feel safe, we know what's going on. And we've got little strings knowing, okay, this has to be done. And that has to be done, because that's what we do as mothers and women all the time, is making sure everybody else is happy, everything's in their place, and then keeping ourselves last and taking my hands off the reins and going, I cannot control this part at all. I can't make him do anything. All I'm responsible for is making sure that I'm doing what I need to do and be my best person wherever that ends up leading me.

Eve [00:15:57]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Lora Cheadle [00:15:59]:
Now, I'm going to ask a kind of a zinger of a question, but I know. I know people are curious about this, which is why I'm going to ask it. Boundaries for yourself. How are you in creating boundaries for yourself? How many times are you willing to go through this? He's come back. Now what next? I told you it was a zinger.

Eve [00:16:29]:
Yeah. And I've been asked this question. Yeah, I do have a circle of friends. I told you I lost my best friend, but I have another circle of friends that have become everything to me. And they've asked me this and before this, I mean, I always used to say, oh, never again. Never again, ever again. But I was a different person then. Now I have set that boundary because I have been open and honest, because I have changed my life, because I am finally in a place that I can look in the Mirror and go, you know what? I deserve to be adored.

Eve [00:17:06]:
I deserve to be cherished. I also deserve to not have to wonder if something is going on or to feel the need to check the phone or to feel the need to check an email. I shouldn't have to do that. So now that we've been so open, we have discussed this, we have had this conversation. My boundary is. That's it. Yeah, that. That's it.

Eve [00:17:30]:
Should it happen again, there are no more chances left.

Eve [00:17:36]:
Yeah.

Eve [00:17:37]:
And that brings you point. It does. And that. That does bring me peace where before it didn't. I would get very uneasy and very anxious when I say that, even though I of course don't want that to happen. My God, no, no. But I can say it with complete calm, confidence and respect for myself and for my daughter and for our relationship too, because that's not. This isn't good on anybody.

Eve [00:18:03]:
Right.

Eve [00:18:03]:
I mean, nobody wins in that situation. So at some point, I have to go. You know what? Not that I'm letting go. I'm just choosing myself. I don't know that I've ever really done in my life. From the time I was little. I don't think I've ever really chosen.

Lora Cheadle [00:18:20]:
Me because good girls don't. Because kind, loving women and moms don't. We Self sacrifice. Which is all a lie.

Eve [00:18:32]:
Yeah.

Lora Cheadle [00:18:33]:
But what I also really love about your journey is, you know now. You know now that decision brings you peace. And I think so often people feel like, I found out once I. I have to make the decision now, and then it becomes this huge, looming thing in their head. You can decide one way or the other and then you can change your mind and life still flows on and you learn some things the first time and you didn't learn some things the first time. And that's okay. You made a decision that brought you to the next decision point where then you learned more and then you were able to make a decision and then it brought you to this point. And just like you said, I am different now.

Lora Cheadle [00:19:20]:
I can make different decisions now and I can be at peace with the decisions that I made in the past because now I know.

Eve [00:19:28]:
Exactly. It's a beautiful thing. I mean, my friends that have seen me kind of walk through this just recently after she came to see the show, she looked at me and she's like, you're just not the same person you were last year. And she said, I'm so proud of you. Which of course, you know, warms your heart for other. Because I think, oh, yeah, I've made these changes, but has anybody else noticed? And to hear people say no, we see it. We see the change. We see the growth in you.

Eve [00:19:53]:
Yeah.

Lora Cheadle [00:19:54]:
Well, just your energy, just your presence, like, right here, right now, you're clear, you're confident, you're. You're open, you're. You're vivacious and energetic. You were not the beat down. Oh, my God, this happened. And what am I going to do? And I don't want to lose this. And.

Eve [00:20:12]:
Or the scared little girl who didn't think that she could do it on her own. Yeah, I had. I had to have him. I have to make this work. I can't let anybody know. Oh, my gosh. I'm so embarrassed. I'm so traumatized.

Eve [00:20:22]:
No one can know. It has to be this big secret. And now I'm like, you know, if I can. If I can say something, if I can share my story, if I can talk to other people and I can help someone else.

Lora Cheadle [00:20:35]:
Mm.

Eve [00:20:36]:
I'm fine with that. Because I. I would have loved if there would. That's why, you know, people. Me watching other stories or listening to other people's stories. Thank you. Because otherwise, we feel like we're trapped in these dark four walls and we can't get out because there's no one else there that we can reach to. So sharing the story is everything.

Eve [00:20:54]:
And if it means you go through these terrible, dark times to help someone else, I'm all for that.

Lora Cheadle [00:20:59]:
Absolutely.

Eve [00:21:00]:
Thousand percent.

Lora Cheadle [00:21:01]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So you're right. Sharing your story is a huge turning point. What were some of the other turning points along the way that really woke you up, sparked a different way of thinking?

Eve [00:21:17]:
Well, a lot of it was listening to other people and hearing. Listening to podcasts. Most of it was really just spending time with myself.

Eve [00:21:25]:
Yeah.

Eve [00:21:25]:
You know, writing down, you know, what do I really want? What do I really. What do I enjoy? I mean, I don't even know if I've ever asked myself, like, how do I want my life? You know, and. And actually having the time alone. Like, he was gone for like a year and a half, and my daughter and I did think together and watched shows together and went on vacation and, you know, I slept in my bed alone, having the time for myself because I. I got married older and I lived with my family up until the time I moved out to get married.

Eve [00:21:57]:
Yeah.

Eve [00:21:58]:
So I didn't have any real time with myself, and I was always. And I was taking care of my parents before I got married. So I was always constantly in this caregiver caregiver, caregiver. So to suddenly have all this time and, oh, my daughter went off to some stuff for pre college. I'm like, I'm alone, completely alone for two weeks. Oh my gosh. What, what do I do? I'm like, oh, I can do whatever I want. Yes.

Eve [00:22:25]:
And it took me a moment to go, well, what does that mean?

Lora Cheadle [00:22:28]:
Yeah, what do I want?

Eve [00:22:30]:
What do I want? And then I started to think about that and then I started to do an act on that. And so there's not really any real. The aha moments were small little moments. I didn't have a big, oh, here it is, the light bulb, and everything goes off and everything's great. It was just. Yes. Bit by bit, little by little, chipping away, chipping away, chipping away. Because there was a lot to chip away.

Eve [00:22:56]:
There was a lot going on. I did not have the trauma that my husband did. No. I had my own stuff, I had my own garbage. And there was a lot to chip away and chip away and chip away, you know, and slowly but surely, all of a sudden you look and go, oh, wait a minute, something's different.

Lora Cheadle [00:23:14]:
Yeah.

Eve [00:23:14]:
When did that happen? I'm not quite sure when, but it did. And I still got more to go. I mean, there's still plenty of chipping away that needs to be done. And there will be until the day I die. Because you stop learning, you stop living. And I will constantly learn and constantly grow and constantly want to be better and know that I will never reach perfection. And that's okay. The most important thing for me is to have peace.

Eve [00:23:38]:
Yes. Yes.

Lora Cheadle [00:23:40]:
And I really appreciate how you frame that, that it's these little small things along the way. Because one of my, one of my most popular ways that I work is like the voxer access. And that's the asynchronous communication where we don't sit down and have a full blown hour long coaching session. Although, you know, that can be great if you're like, I gotta figure this out. Walk me through this, we gotta figure it out. But, but that asynchronous communication, it's like I've just been pondering this. Wow, I just read this about that. Huh? I was realizing the other day that I didn't know, blah, blah, blah.

Lora Cheadle [00:24:17]:
It's those little tiny moments. And you're so right. It can just be a thought when you're driving. It can just be making dinner and realizing I don't even know what I want to make for me because I'm used to Making up for a family or what? What. What do I want? And then all of a sudden you look back over 10,000 small decisions and you say, I'm a totally different person. And I didn't even see that evolution.

Eve [00:24:44]:
And I think that that's comforting because so many times, especially us women who are real go getters and used to doing, doing, doing, we want that big moment. I need it all to happen. How do I make it better? Right now, right this instant? We. You don't. It. Nothing ever happens. And anything worthwhile takes time.

Eve [00:25:02]:
Yes.

Eve [00:25:03]:
And. And the bigger it is, the more time it usually takes. So I, I totally agree with that. 100. And. And for anybody who's listening, that it doesn't happen just like that. I mean, sometimes it does. I mean, I'm not saying never or always.

Lora Cheadle [00:25:16]:
Right.

Eve [00:25:17]:
But most of the time it's the little. It's the small steps that, you know, what's that one Christmas movie take? Put one foot in front of the other.

Eve [00:25:25]:
Yes.

Eve [00:25:25]:
What it is one step at a time. And as long as you're not going back, you can even stand still sometimes. And it's okay.

Eve [00:25:31]:
Yes.

Eve [00:25:32]:
You know, and then till you're ready to take that next step.

Lora Cheadle [00:25:36]:
Absolutely. Because here's the reality too. I want you to think about that moment you found that first email or that moment your daughter called. That is that huge shift and it's jarring and it's like your stomach falls to your knees. And that's shock. That is a negative, terrible, awful, horrible shock that none of us want. But what we don't tend to realize is even good stuff, if it comes in all at once, is also a shock. And the mind can't catch up with shock.

Eve [00:26:17]:
Change is stressful, whether it's good change or bad change, you know, you just process it differently because one, you know, tens on the negative side. Gosh, it's so weird you just saying those two things about the email and my daughter calling. I can. Gosh, I can feel it. I bet it's.

Speaker E [00:26:35]:
That's weird because I haven't.

Eve [00:26:38]:
I may be, because I'm talking about it and right at this moment that I usually don't feel it in my body like I do right now. And I know that. I know to look forward to my body because I've listened to you enough to note and I can feel it right here and wow.

Speaker E [00:26:52]:
I don't want to feel that way.

Lora Cheadle [00:26:55]:
Put. Put your hands where you feel it.

Eve [00:26:57]:
Okay.

Lora Cheadle [00:26:58]:
And I just want you to drop in. Whether it's breaths and Sometimes it's painful, because sometimes that knot is tight. But just touch it and just be with it for a moment, because those are memories, and those are visceral memories of very important points in your life. And those points are over, but they were catalysts. They were significant. And I want you to think about honoring that pain, honoring that shock with reverence, because your beautiful body went through that. Your powerful mind had to acclimate to all of that. And that's a lot.

Lora Cheadle [00:28:15]:
And that reverence and gratitude. Yeah, I went through that. And the imprint, I can still feel.

Eve [00:28:25]:
It's.

Lora Cheadle [00:28:26]:
Not that it's getting me anymore, but I can still feel it and then just kind of blow that away.

Eve [00:28:37]:
Okay. That's better.

Lora Cheadle [00:28:40]:
Good. I'm glad.

Eve [00:28:46]:
So, can I ask you a question? So now that it's.

Eve [00:28:48]:
It's.

Eve [00:28:49]:
It's been so long, and you just mentioned that, it doesn't ever completely go away. You feel it different or you. You. You relive it different? So how does that look different for you now? All these years removed and all the work that, you know, you and your husband have done.

Lora Cheadle [00:29:06]:
I love that you asked that. I. I can bring it up. I can choose to bring up that dropping sensation. I can choose to bring up that I'm falling to my knees sensation. Like, I. I can feel it. But I have such empathy and love for beautiful, sweet Lora at that place in her journey because I was so innocent and trusting, and I have just respect, and I want to hold her.

Lora Cheadle [00:29:45]:
And now I have the embodied wisdom and the embodied power that I didn't have. So, yes, I can bring it up. And it's not a comfortable sensation, but it fills me with such love and gratitude for myself and the work that I've done and for the journey that it doesn't hurt anymore.

Eve [00:30:15]:
I like that. I like what you said about holding her and having respect, because I think so much when I look back, sometimes I. You know, that shame gets in or the embarrassment or, what did I do wrong? And I guess switching the thought process to be, no, she didn't know any better. She was just doing the best she could, and she just needed somebody there to say, it's going to be okay. You know, we're going to walk through this together, and I'm going to hold you. And I guess if I look at my daughter, I would, you know, she had made a mistake or she had done. What would I do? Would I judge her, criticize her or condemn? No. I would go and hug her and love her and say, honey, I'm Here.

Eve [00:30:53]:
Yeah. I made a mistake. It's not a. It's not who you are. It doesn't define you.

Eve [00:30:57]:
Yeah.

Eve [00:30:58]:
And we. It's easy to do that with other people than it is with ourselves. I mean, that is honest. And we all, we all know that we are worst critics and our toughest judges. But I'm learning and have learned to take more care with myself.

Eve [00:31:15]:
Yes.

Eve [00:31:16]:
You know, is treat. Treat myself as I would treat other people. If I treated people as harshly as I treated myself, I would be really mad at me for being so mean to other people, you know, so why am I so mean to myself? No.

Lora Cheadle [00:31:34]:
You had mentioned earlier that along the way, you had found somebody that kind of said or alluded to, oh, it's. It's a little bit your fault. And here's the ways that you can change yourself.

Eve [00:31:45]:
Yes, I did. I want to talk program about that.

Lora Cheadle [00:31:50]:
I. I want to talk a little bit about that because there is such a fine line between trying to control somebody in a manipulative way. Like, I'll do all these things and it's going to change them. And it's like this covert manipulation versus I am going to embody myself fully and I'm going to show up differently and I'm going to have respect and love and care for myself and do these fun things with my daughter. And when I show up differently, you either need to match me and do things differently, or we need to shift. So I want to hear from your perspective. What, What. Where.

Lora Cheadle [00:32:25]:
Where did that go? Toxic. Where was it powerful? Because there's two sides of that.

Eve [00:32:33]:
Well, the. As far as the. What I said, that was the one that was my fault. It went toxic because all the work I was doing was always focused on him.

Eve [00:32:44]:
Yes.

Eve [00:32:45]:
And making him happy, which is very obviously why five years later, it happened again.

Eve [00:32:52]:
Yes.

Eve [00:32:53]:
I had done. I had done nothing except try to make him happy, which you cannot make someone else happy. You cannot do that. So bringing him back that time and over that course of five years, Covid also happened over the course of that five years. So, you know, life was just crazy.

Eve [00:33:08]:
Yeah.

Eve [00:33:08]:
And it's impossible. And because I. Because I got him back, but I got him back by doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, doing. And you can't keep that kind of. You just can't keep it up.

Eve [00:33:18]:
No.

Eve [00:33:18]:
So of course it became toxic because eventually I stopped doing and he slipped back into his ways because I wasn't there for him doing all those things. And I slipped back into my ways. And then here we Are. That was toxic. Now, there were some good things because I'm not, as we know. It was not my fault. What he did not. There are definitely things that I was not aware that were triggering or that were hurting him.

Eve [00:33:44]:
I wasn't aware of those things. So we're. So that was good to at least. Yes. I can't blame say, oh, my God, you're the worst person in the whole world, and I'm perfect and you're not. No. I needed to look in the mirror. I needed to take.

Eve [00:33:55]:
And I did. And I. Unfortunately, the mirror was really harsh.

Eve [00:33:58]:
Yeah.

Eve [00:33:59]:
It was a barrage of, oh, you did this wrong and that wrong, this wrong, and nothing's right, and you got to change everything. So that was the beginning of me actually looking and going, oh, I can take some responsibility in us not having the best relationship. Yeah. That's what was good about it. But most of it was toxic. And that's why finding you with such, like a breath of fresh air. Because most people that tell you, oh, it's not your fault, it's all their fault. They're the ones telling you, you need to run away and leave and it's over.

Eve [00:34:34]:
You were saying, no, you can make that decision yourself, and you can make it today and change your mind tomorrow. You can make it tomorrow. And. And it's okay. And I made this choice, and that's my choice. But you're good. But there was so much more. Just.

Eve [00:34:52]:
I wish I had the right word to say, but I keep saying just a breath of fresh air and. And such a peace. Whenever you speak. To never condemnation, never judgment. And never judgment. Also, what I appreciate about you. Never judgment for my husband.

Eve [00:35:06]:
Yeah.

Speaker E [00:35:08]:
And thank you.

Eve [00:35:08]:
I. Because usually there is such condemnation and such judgment, and I love him, and it was nice to not have that. And I appreciate that because we all have our stuff and our junk and, you know, and we all can be better.

Eve [00:35:28]:
Yeah.

Eve [00:35:28]:
And. And we all deserve to be healed. And we all deserve second chances and third chances. We do. Because we need it. I know I've needed it. So how can I not give that to someone else? So I honor that about you. That there's never any of that critical judgment, finger pointing and, oh, my gosh, you need to do this.

Eve [00:35:45]:
No, no, no. You do. And if I can help you. Do you. Then let's. Let's do it. And I love that. And that's why I love listening to everything that you do.

Eve [00:35:56]:
And I've read your books, and I do the work because I want to be in What I see in you, it's such an inspiration. Complete inspiration. And to see your joy. I even did a burlesque class because of you.

Eve [00:36:10]:
Yay.

Lora Cheadle [00:36:11]:
I'm so.

Eve [00:36:12]:
Oh, my gosh. And it was so much fun.

Lora Cheadle [00:36:14]:
It is really fun.

Eve [00:36:17]:
An amazing teacher. She does. Actually does it. She gets paid for it. She's fabulous. But the whole just. You are beautiful. I don't care if you're a size 0, a size 16, 18.

Eve [00:36:27]:
I don't care what you're wearing. Embrace your body and who you are. So what an empowering thing that was. I encourage every woman to just go out and do at least a class because. Oh, my gosh. So much fun. Yeah. And great exercise, too.

Lora Cheadle [00:36:39]:
It really is. It really is. I'm glad you did that. And then you're gonna love it, too, because pre Covid, I did a bunch of online burlesque stuff, and then in the middle of COVID I was. You know, everyone was like, oh, my God, I can't be online anymore. And I quit doing that. And just recently, some of my students are like, can we go back to doing burlesque online? And I was like, you know, I think it's about times. Oh, you'll have to come.

Lora Cheadle [00:37:02]:
I. I'm.

Eve [00:37:03]:
Oh, for sure.

Lora Cheadle [00:37:04]:
Yeah. I was gonna say I'm definitely gonna gift you some sessions, so be on.

Eve [00:37:07]:
The lookout for that. Please do. I would. I would absolutely love that, because it was. It was so much fun and. And just a guest, and, you know, we all need to laugh and have fun and just enjoy, especially with a bunch of women. We need to love each other a little bit more. And quit.

Eve [00:37:21]:
Oh, my God. You see what she's wearing? And all her. I mean, stop.

Lora Cheadle [00:37:24]:
Oh, it gets ridiculous. Yeah, it gets ridiculous. And that. That's right back what you were talking about with the judgment, whether it's judging us or judging our partners or judging other people. Oh, my gosh. Can we just sit with people and say, this is a hard life. I don't know what I've been doing, and I. I'm just trying my hardest, and.

Lora Cheadle [00:37:44]:
And if I make a mistake, I really want to have grace for myself, and I really hope other people have grace for me. And, like, when you said you lost a friend, I get that. You know, so many of us do, but ultimately, I want people in my corner who love me.

Eve [00:38:00]:
Yeah.

Lora Cheadle [00:38:02]:
And if somebody. It's a blessing that they're gone.

Eve [00:38:07]:
I haven't got to that point yet. It's okay. I don't. I don't feel that yet, because I just. There's a lot I don't understand, but I also am not going to focus on that as so much that I miss out on the people that are in my life and that want to be in my life and have a great time with. So I don't want. That's. That's one part of my mind and my heart, and I think about that.

Eve [00:38:33]:
But, God, I've got some wonderful people around me that I'm so incredibly grateful for, and I. You know, I wouldn't give them up for anything. So life takes turns and twists and nothing I can do about it. I can't. It's out of my hand. It's out of my control. I will forever, ever love them, and we'll be here should they ever come back and we can have a conversation. But right now, I'm focusing on those people who want to be in my corner and I want to be in theirs.

Lora Cheadle [00:38:58]:
Yeah, absolutely. So what are you working with now? Because I liked how you also said it's that constant chipping away. We are growing, growing and changing. What are you struggling with, working through? What is that next layer for you?

Eve [00:39:14]:
The struggle comes when I'm not doing things. I. I struggle to be just sitting because the thoughts are a lot, and the reoccurring resentment that comes up, you know, especially now that my daughter's going to college. There's so many things that, you know, we had made previous plans that now had to be altered because of what happened. And. And I will tell you, I mean, honestly, what I think was leading up to all this is my daughter is leaving for college in two weeks, and it's going to be just the two of us.

Eve [00:39:50]:
Yes.

Eve [00:39:51]:
And that makes me very nervous and very scared because there are conversations we haven't had because so much has been going on that it wasn't the right time. And I'm not going to bombard you with all these questions and all this stuff going on. That's not fair. No, no, I'm concerned about that.

Speaker E [00:40:06]:
I'm concerned about having that time and bringing up those conversations and making sure that I'm doing it in the right way, you know, and not, you know, not like just jumping on him with, you know, questions and thoughts and all this kind of stuff. But how do I. How do I be more present and careful and respectful of his feelings as well, but also getting mine out at the same time?

Eve [00:40:38]:
Yeah.

Lora Cheadle [00:40:38]:
Yes, it totally makes sense. Let's break some of that down. Okay. Here you sit as you are today. Do you Have a vision for how you want to feel in this marriage at the end of the day?

Eve [00:40:57]:
Oh, yes.

Lora Cheadle [00:40:58]:
Okay.

Speaker E [00:40:59]:
Yes, Absolutely, I do.

Lora Cheadle [00:41:01]:
Okay. So that's that gap between here I am now and here's how I want us to be as empty nesters, as partners. When you think about that gap, can you start breaking down some of the steps along the way, or is it still kind of confusing? And either. Either way, I'm just. I'm just asking because sometimes it's like I don't know how to get there.

Speaker E [00:41:29]:
It's. It's still pretty con. It's still pretty confusing. Yeah.

Eve [00:41:35]:
I mean, that there.

Speaker E [00:41:36]:
I know it doesn't have to be one big giant leap, but. Yeah. I'm not quite sure. What. What's the first step? Maybe if I could get to the first step, I could take the second one, because then it would make. It would make more clarity for me.

Eve [00:41:47]:
Yes, yes.

Lora Cheadle [00:41:49]:
And that's why I wanted to ask that first. Okay, so when you are present alone in your relationship right now, what is the first sticking point that comes up? Is it a past thought? Is it a future question? What is that first moment of discomfort you experience right now, today?

Eve [00:42:16]:
It's a.

Speaker E [00:42:17]:
It's a discomfort right now, just not. Because so much is going on, I don't feel the safety that I want to feel right now.

Eve [00:42:29]:
And I don't know if that's, you.

Speaker E [00:42:31]:
Know, thinking about what happened. And because it was. It was multiple times that there's always that thing in my head going, well, you know, I never caught it before.

Eve [00:42:39]:
I mean, all. All.

Speaker E [00:42:40]:
Every time I was blindsided, like, what is wrong with me that I did not see it coming. So now I'm like, on that pins and needles, like, well, since I can't.

Eve [00:42:49]:
See it coming now, I'm looking for.

Speaker E [00:42:50]:
Anything that reminds me of something to.

Eve [00:42:53]:
Go, oh, well, he.

Speaker E [00:42:54]:
He's doing this now.

Eve [00:42:55]:
He did that before.

Speaker E [00:42:56]:
Does that mean that it's happening again?

Eve [00:42:57]:
You know, all that kind of stuff.

Speaker E [00:42:59]:
But then I bolt myself up and I'm like, oh, well, if he's doing it again, I already said my boundary, you know? I mean, like, isn't that funny?

Lora Cheadle [00:43:06]:
And I'm like, what?

Speaker E [00:43:07]:
But that's what you do. You go through this and like, I'm just. That's fine, because I said, if he.

Eve [00:43:11]:
Does it again, I'm done. But I don't want to be done.

Speaker E [00:43:12]:
So I don't want to be doing it. So then you end up the big hamster wheel.

Eve [00:43:15]:
Yes. Yes.

Lora Cheadle [00:43:17]:
Okay, let's start with that safety piece, what does it feel like for you to be safe?

Speaker E [00:43:28]:
What does it feel like?

Lora Cheadle [00:43:30]:
Yeah, And I'll give you an example, because that's a big question.

Eve [00:43:34]:
Yeah.

Lora Cheadle [00:43:35]:
I am on a girls weekend with my best friends, you know, from junior high school. And we've been together and we know each other. I can say anything, and I know I'm not going to offend them. And I know if something comes out of my mouth wrong, you know, it might be like, laura, what are you talking about? And then we laugh about it. It's like, oh, my gosh, I didn't mean that. I know if I mess up with some technology on my phone or something like that, I can just be like, oh, my God, help me.

Eve [00:44:03]:
And.

Lora Cheadle [00:44:03]:
And nobody's gonna say, you're so stupid. Why can't you? Like, I am so me. I am so me. I don't have to wear anything. I don't have to do anything. I don't have to worry about saying. I feel unaware almost of how I look, how I sound, what I do, because I am just so completely me.

Eve [00:44:28]:
The.

Lora Cheadle [00:44:29]:
But I'm like, unaware. And that, to me, feels really safe because I'm not second guessing. I'm just me unaware.

Speaker E [00:44:38]:
That's a. I like that. Because, yeah, if you. Not that you're doing whatever you want, but you kind of are. You're un. You're unaware of the. Of the pressure of feeling pressure of people looking at you or thinking about you or talking bad about you or judging you.

Eve [00:44:54]:
Okay.

Speaker E [00:44:55]:
I like.

Eve [00:44:55]:
Yeah.

Speaker E [00:44:56]:
Unaware. Now when do I feel unaware?

Lora Cheadle [00:44:59]:
And maybe it's different for you, you know, maybe safety for you is with your daughter or.

Speaker E [00:45:05]:
But that's what makes sense, though, because I'm. I've spent so much of my life always wondering, yeah, did I make this person mad? Did I upset this person or did I do something wrong here? I made a mistake here and now they're not going to. I'm going to lose them over this. That's been my whole life is constant, constant, constant. I feel completely unaware, which is kind of ironic because you have to learn lines and stuff is on stage.

Eve [00:45:30]:
Yeah.

Speaker E [00:45:31]:
When I am performing and I'm doing some. Doing a role like I just finished that I loved and loved playing this character, there is such a. An that inner joy. And even though I'm doing my lines and my blocking and whatever, dancing and singing that I'm doing, I am unaware. And I don't care if there's one person in the audience, a thousand people, the audience clap don't clap.

Eve [00:45:55]:
I am living my best life right now.

Eve [00:45:57]:
Yes.

Speaker E [00:45:59]:
And. And I love that feeling, you know, when you get nervous, getting ready to go on and then you're on and you're like. And then you come off and you exhale and you're like, yes.

Eve [00:46:09]:
Yeah.

Speaker E [00:46:09]:
It's a beautiful thing.

Eve [00:46:11]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Lora Cheadle [00:46:13]:
Okay, so anchor that feeling. I know that feeling. You know, we know that feeling. Move that in to your body. Your first night home alone with your husband when your daughter's gone.

Eve [00:46:40]:
Why is it so hard?

Eve [00:46:42]:
Yeah.

Lora Cheadle [00:46:48]:
Why is that so hard?

Eve [00:46:50]:
Yeah.

Speaker E [00:46:52]:
I don't know. Maybe because it's so different. Because I think. I mean, me being on stage isn't relational, and maybe that's.

Eve [00:47:02]:
Maybe.

Speaker E [00:47:03]:
Well, not maybe. Relationships have always been an issue because of my perfectionism, because of the fact that I'm always afraid to make a mistake, that I don't ever truly am myself. Because if I am, what would they think? What will they say? And will they leave? They judge or will they be critical? I do have one friend. I do have one friend that I could tell anything to and be anything with. And I mean, she's that bury the body kind of friend, you know?

Eve [00:47:33]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Lora Cheadle [00:47:34]:
That we all need good friends to have.

Eve [00:47:36]:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker E [00:47:38]:
So. So how do you move that sense into something that maybe you haven't felt in quite a while, ever, really? At all?

Lora Cheadle [00:47:48]:
Yes. Here's how you do it. You find that feeling and you create that in the moment. And then you start noticing where the rub is, where is the rubber? Why is this not happening? And that's when you start analyzing what's going on, because you'll suddenly start getting this awareness, oh, maybe it is the other person. And maybe they're criticizing me. And I hadn't really noticed, but their constant criticism. And then it's like, oh, now we can have a conversation around that. Because I know what it is.

Lora Cheadle [00:48:28]:
Sometimes it's not. Not them at all. Sometimes it's us. Like you were talking about the perfection. Sometimes it's this belief. I need to change this. I need to do something. I need to take action.

Lora Cheadle [00:48:39]:
I need to solve the problem. I know for me, I was like a big problem solver and I couldn't let that piece in because I always had to hop up. Well, I'll Google it. Well, I'll do it.

Speaker E [00:48:52]:
I can relate to that.

Eve [00:48:54]:
Yeah.

Lora Cheadle [00:48:55]:
So find that feeling. If you need to step away, go to your office, go to the bedroom, breathe it in, find it. Put yourself there mentally. You're on stage. Bring that Piece into your body, come back into the living room, come back into the kitchen, and then just notice what knocks it down from a space of curiosity, not from a space of judgment. What knocks this down.

Speaker E [00:49:20]:
That's good. That make. That makes so much sense. I like that. I can do that.

Eve [00:49:26]:
Yeah.

Lora Cheadle [00:49:27]:
And that's step one, because then when you know what knocks it down, then you know it's me, it's him. It's my reaction to him is my belief about him. The story in my head is.

Eve [00:49:43]:
Story in my head.

Speaker E [00:49:44]:
That was a great podcast. What kind of stories am I making up in my head that aren't really happening? But, yes, we do that all the time.

Eve [00:49:51]:
Yeah.

Eve [00:49:52]:
I like that.

Lora Cheadle [00:49:55]:
Because when I would jump in to fix it, I would be at peace. Sean would get home, he would have a criticism, I would leap up to fix it. I was going to do it all. Yeah. And then the story in his head was, I am inept. And my. Because my wife has to get up and fix everything, so she cannot stand me. Because she has to get up and fix, so she thinks I'm inept.

Lora Cheadle [00:50:21]:
So then he's going to get more critical, which is going to send me into I got to fix it mode, which is going to make him feel more and more inept.

Speaker E [00:50:30]:
Yeah, I get that. I've been there.

Eve [00:50:32]:
Yeah.

Speaker E [00:50:32]:
I make sense. We each have our own stories in our head, and then they conflict, and we're both doing the same thing and not realizing it.

Eve [00:50:42]:
Yeah.

Lora Cheadle [00:50:43]:
So my challenge for you, my challenge for Dear Eve, is to find this feeling every day of being on stage, of not being impacted. Applause. Matter or they don't matter. People matter or they don't matter. You are finding that joy and to bring it into your relationship every day.

Eve [00:51:03]:
Okay.

Lora Cheadle [00:51:03]:
And then just without judgment, notice where it knocks, where it gets knocked down.

Eve [00:51:09]:
I can do that.

Speaker E [00:51:10]:
I will do that. I'm actually looking forward to that.

Eve [00:51:12]:
Yeah.

Speaker E [00:51:13]:
Because I want to. Because I. I want to tackle this. I want to do this. I want to get past this. I want to feel safe in every area of my life.

Eve [00:51:23]:
Yeah.

Speaker E [00:51:24]:
Because you can't live on stage, so. Nor do I want to, because it.

Eve [00:51:29]:
Is exhausting after a while.

Eve [00:51:30]:
Yeah.

Speaker E [00:51:30]:
But. And it's not real life, and I want real life to feel like that.

Eve [00:51:36]:
Yeah.

Lora Cheadle [00:51:37]:
And. And I'm just gonna give you a little warning, too, because I. This happens to a lot of people, too, when we realize, oh, God, it's me.

Eve [00:51:48]:
Yeah.

Lora Cheadle [00:51:49]:
You know, there was a part of me that would sometimes think, I. I love having a little Bit of conflict because it makes really juicy stories with my girlfriend, friends. And then they can all be like, oh, my God, he did what? You know what I mean? And it was like, no, Lora, this is not worth the story. It's not worth the story. Find that piece.

Eve [00:52:12]:
That's good. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker E [00:52:16]:
I've had enough stories. I don't need any more.

Eve [00:52:18]:
Honestly. What stories?

Lora Cheadle [00:52:24]:
I would love you to update me. So your daughter leaves in a couple of weeks.

Speaker E [00:52:28]:
Yeah. We're flying to New York this weekend because we're going to see Masquerade, which is her favorite. So we're going there as a little girls trip. And then the following week we drive her to North Carolina.

Lora Cheadle [00:52:39]:
Wow, wow, wow. So what I'm going to give you then is two weeks of being an empty nester.

Speaker E [00:52:45]:
Okay.

Lora Cheadle [00:52:46]:
Wink one. You're going to have a little grief. You're going to have a little, little grief. You're going to have a little bit of that.

Eve [00:52:54]:
Yeah.

Lora Cheadle [00:52:54]:
Yeah. Week two, I want you to focus on feeling safety in your body.

Eve [00:53:00]:
Okay?

Lora Cheadle [00:53:00]:
This is not about having conversations yet. We'll break those down later because there's no point in having conversations if you're feeling unsafe. Oh, unsafe. It's going to trigger more unsafety and it's not going to be productive. So give yourself a week to kind of process a week to start bringing in safety. Then check in with me.

Eve [00:53:19]:
Me.

Speaker E [00:53:19]:
Okay.

Lora Cheadle [00:53:20]:
Let me know how it's going and then I will. There. We'll break it down into. Here's the first conversation we need to have. Here's the time of day we need to have it. Here's the language around what we're going to talk about.

Speaker E [00:53:33]:
I love that. I can do that.

Lora Cheadle [00:53:35]:
Good.

Eve [00:53:35]:
Absolutely.

Lora Cheadle [00:53:36]:
Thank you.

Speaker E [00:53:37]:
Thank you, Lora.

Lora Cheadle [00:53:38]:
You're welcome. And thank you again for your willingness to be here and to share from your heart listeners. I really hope you got some something out of this. You're not alone. Whatever it is you're feeling, you're doing, you're experiencing, it's right for you. There is no shame. There is no judgment whether it's me you're reaching out to or somebody else you're reaching out to. Please just reach out.

Lora Cheadle [00:54:04]:
Please just connect. Because I know, Eve knows. I think we all know that dark hole of despair we can go down and it's just never worth it. I'm here. People like Eve are here. Have an amazing week. And as usual, always remember to flaunt exactly who you are, because who you are is always more than enough.

Lora Cheadle [00:54:30]:
Tune in next time to flaunt Find your sparkle and create a life you love after Infidelity or betrayal. With Lora Ch every Wednesday at 7am and 7pm Eastern Standard Time on syndicated DreamVision 7 radio network. Uncover the truth of what's possible for you on the other side of betrayal and develop the skills and strategies necessary to embrace the future and flourish today. Download your free Betrayal Recovery toolkit@betrayalrecoveryguide.com.