Whether you’ve already divorced, are just beginning the process, or have no idea what you want to do, this show will give you the lowdown on all things divorce, and how to divorce with ease, grace, and even joy. With topics ranging from handling anger and fostering forgiveness to navigating the dating world as a fresh start, Jackie Pilossoph, founder of Divorced Girl Smiling shares her wealth of knowledge and personal experiences to help you find joy, positivity, and growth during divorce.

 

Top Take-a-Ways:

• Prioritizing your emotional growth and healing during divorce, and why “Divorce is a good time to work on yourself”.
• Why the only “bad choice” you can make is the choice to stay stuck and unhappy.
• Patience and positivity when re-entering the dating scene, releasing expectations, and enjoying the process of meeting new people with an open heart.
• Dating apps vs. more traditional methods of dating, which is better and why.

Get Relief Now!

Get the understanding, clarity, & support you deserve today!

Schedule your one-hour Zoom session with Lora, and we will figure it all out together.

*BONUS!* This session includes 30 minutes of follow-up support.

Schedule and pay here: https://calendly.com/loras-schedule/coaching-session

 

About Lora

Attorney, speaker and Burnout & Betrayal Recovery Coach, Lora Cheadle believes that betrayal uncovers the truth of what’s possible when we stop focusing on what was done to us and start showing up unapologetically for ourselves. She helps women rebuild their identity and self-worth after infidelity so they can reclaim (or find for the very first time) their confidence, clarity, and connection to source and create their own kind of happily ever after.

About Jackie Pilossoph

Jackie Pilossoph is the creator and editor-in-chief of the media company, Divorced Girl Smiling, as well as the author of four romantic comedy novels. A former TV news reporter and Huffington Post divorce blogger, Pilossoph also wrote the weekly syndicated column, “Love Essentially” for the Pioneer Press/ the Chicago Tribune for 7 years. The column was syndicated in all Tribune Publishing owned papers across the U.S. Pilossoph holds a masters degree in journalism and lives in Chicago with her family. Oh, and she’s divorced. Learn more at www.divorcedgirlsmiling.com

Download your Betrayal Recovery Tool Kit at www.BetrayalRecoveryGuide.com, and take the first steps in feeling okay again, despite what’s going on around you.

 

 

 

Untangle yourself from the past, reclaim your power, and own your worth so you can create a future you love on your own terms. All with a wink and a smile! Learn more at www.loracheadle.com and follow me across all social!

 

 

The most comfortable shoes you will ever wear! Available in seven heel heights, these shoes will keep you comfortably on your feet for 12 hours. Made with cork, many styles are available including heels, wedges, and boots. www.EuropeanHeels.com $25 off with Discount Code Flaunt

 

 

SOLAWAVE Reduce the appearance of wrinkles, fine lines, dark circles, blemishes, and dark spots while de-puffing and energizing your skin. This 7x Award-Winning Skincare Wand combines Red Light Therapy, Galvanic Current, Therapeutic Warmth, and Facial Massage for an easy-to-use and effective treatment. https://www.pjtra.com/t/2-574028-273174-269792

 

Transcript

 

Narrator [00:00:01]:
You’re listening to flaunt, find your sparkle and create a life you love after infidelity or betrayal. A podcast women who’ve been betrayed by their intimate partner and want to turn their devastation into an invitation to reclaim themselves and their worth. Tune in weekly so you can start making sense of it all and learn how to be okay on the inside no matter what goes on on the outside. Download your free betrayal recovery toolkit at betrayalrecoveryguide.com.

Narrator [00:00:35]:
This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. Have you been struggling lately? Relationship issues impact every area of your life. When I found out about my husband’s infidelity, I was so devastated. I could barely function. Sleeping was impossible because I couldn’t shut off my brain. Eating was a challenge because I felt nauseous all the time, and for the 1st month or so, everything felt pointless. Whether you’re having trouble sleeping, feeling hopeless, or just can’t focus, BetterHelp is here to help you. BetterHelp offers licensed therapists who are trained to listen and help.

Narrator [00:01:12]:
You can talk to your therapist in a private online environment at your convenience. There’s a broad range of expertise in BetterHelp’s 20,000 plus therapist network that gives you access to help that might not be available in your area. Just fill out a questionnaire to help assess your specific needs, and then you’ll be matched with a therapist in under 24 hours. Then you can schedule secure video and phone sessions. Plus, you can exchange unlimited messages, and everything you share is completely confidential. I know that confidentiality was important for me, especially early on when I couldn’t even get my own mind wrapped around what was happening. And it was so comforting to be able to speak with someone candidly about everything I was going through to validate that what I was feeling and experiencing was completely normal. You can request a new therapist at no additional charge anytime.

Narrator [00:02:07]:
Join the 2,000,000 plus people who have taken charge of their mental health with an experienced BetterHelp therapist. Special offer to flaunt, create a life you love after infidelity and betrayal listeners. You get 10% off your 1st month at betterhelp.com/flaunt. That’s better help, help.com/flauntflaunt. Thanks again to BetterHelp for sponsoring this podcast.

Lora Cheadle [00:02:50]:
Hello and welcome to Flaunt. Find your sparkle and create a life you love after infidelity or betrayal. I’m Lora Cheadle, and, today, we are going to talk about divorce. My guest is Jackie Pilosoff, and she is the CEO and founder of Divorce Girl Smiling. And she’ll tell you a little bit more about that, but what I really love about her and her company is, well, many things, but it’s the energy of smiling. It’s the energy of, yeah, we can get through this and we can get through this together. It’s the energy of, hey, let me introduce you to the people that I know that helped me. Hey, let me connect you with so and so.

Lora Cheadle [00:03:31]:
It’s friendly. As she says on her website, it’s like sitting down at Starbucks with a group of friends and just talking about what’s going on in your life. And as you know, as a survivor of infidelity and betrayal, it’s isolating. Nobody wants to sit down and share with their neighbor. Hey. Guess what? My partner just did to me. And this is the community, and this is the space that you can get real, you can get raw, you can get honest, and you can share. One of the other things I love about Jackie is she talks about dating, dating after divorce.

Lora Cheadle [00:04:09]:
And whether you’re ready for that or not, and whether you’re thinking about dating somebody else or redating your partner and recreating a new relationship like I did with my partner, the tips and the tricks and the tools she will share are bound to be helpful. So with that, welcome to the show, Jackie. I’m so glad you’re here.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:04:31]:
Aw, Lora, thank you so much for having me.

Lora Cheadle [00:04:34]:
So let’s start with your company, Divorced Girl Smiling. What is that? Why did you create it? Say more about that.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:04:45]:
Well, it it is kind of an oxymoron. It’s like smiling, divorce. Those two things don’t really go together. But when I created it, I wanted people to know that you can have a good life after divorce. And so I named it really specifically because, of course, it’s not a bed of roses all the time, but you can smile again. You can laugh again. You can have a really, really good post divorce life. And so I started it because I didn’t want people, like much like your brand, Lora, to feel isolated and alone and like they had no place to go.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:05:25]:
And with Divorced Girls Smiling, if you’re up at 2 in the morning and you can’t sleep, you can go on the site. You can find podcasts, articles, trusted professionals who you might wanna hire. And it makes you feel better about your divorce, and we hope that you’ll end up smiling and end up happy.

Lora Cheadle [00:05:44]:
Yeah. Because isn’t that what it’s all about? It’s it’s about figuring it out. And, no, the process is not fun. The process of deciding to get divorced is not fun. The process of getting divorced is not fun. The process of figuring out your life after divorce isn’t necessarily fun, but the end result should be fun because otherwise, why are you doing it?

Jackie Pilossoph [00:06:07]:
Right. And and you you know, I think there are some people who end up truly happy who will say, him leaving me is the best thing that ever happened to me. And there’s people who they were the ones who decided to get divorced, and they end up happy even though it was a lot of pain and a lot of hard work. And then there’s, like, a few people who end up bitter, angry, play the victim the rest of their lives, and talk about what a jerk their ex husband is. And I don’t think anybody wants to be that.

Lora Cheadle [00:06:40]:
No. No. I you’re right. I no. Yeah. No.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:06:46]:
That’s not us. That is not us.

Lora Cheadle [00:06:49]:
And you’re right. Nobody wants that. But I think it’s also easy to get stuck stuck in that role sometimes when you don’t see other options. You know, maybe your parents had a contentious divorce, and your mom has been bitter the rest of her life. And your best friend had a divorce, and she’s been bitter. It’s sometimes hard to figure out how do you do it. What are the tools that I need? What are the skills that I need?

Jackie Pilossoph [00:07:14]:
Right. There are so many, and I think one really important one is when people get divorced, it’s a good time to work on yourself. And what I mean by that is I’m not saying like, oh, you have to go to the gym, work out, lose £10, whatever. If that’s what you want, that’s great. That’s one way of working on yourself. Although I always say work out to be healthy, not because you care about the way you look. Just because if you’re healthy, you’ll look it, and that’s a good thing. But when I say work on yourself, I mean, get yourself a really good divorce coach.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:07:48]:
Get yourself a really good therapist and work out all your issues so that if you do wanna find love again and you do want a happy life after divorce, you’re setting yourself up to do that because you’ll be you’ll have done the work on yourself. And nobody’s perfect even if you’re the one who says, I thought everything was perfect, and he left, and it was the biggest shock of my life. I get it. I talked to so many people that that’s happened to. But we could all always work on ourselves. And so you learn to kind of take accountability for some of the things that might have led to this. Not that I’m telling your listeners that it was their fault if their husband left or their wife left. That’s Right.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:08:33]:
That’s not what I’m saying. But nobody’s perfect, and we can all continually work on ourselves to be healthier and happier. Mhmm.

Lora Cheadle [00:08:41]:
I so appreciate that because the tagline of my business is betrayal uncovers the truth. And it’s not only the truth about the other person, it’s the truth about all of those things that you can get to the bottom of and work on in yourself. All of the ways we’ve abandoned ourselves along the way. All of the things that we thought, oh, I’ll deal with that later. All of the things that we failed to acknowledge. I mean, even as simply as the ways that we didn’t fully grow up. And it’s Absolutely. Yeah.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:09:13]:
Has so many things to do with, you know I used to tell everyone I had a perfect childhood because I I come from a really good family, and I love them all so much. But as I went into therapy and after my divorce, I realized there were some things that were kind of wrong. And I’m not saying my family did anything wrong. They were just being themselves. But there’s gonna be that in every single family. And when you acknowledge it and you say, maybe that’s why I did this, then you can start to not make the same mistakes and come to peace with things, like yourself better because you think, really, wasn’t my fault that I made that decision. It was because of this happening to me in childhood, and then all of that self love comes back. So working on yourself is just so important.

Lora Cheadle [00:10:05]:
Yeah. And you said something that was really important too. It’s not your fault, but once you’re aware of it, then you can choose better.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:10:14]:
Next time. Right. We all wanna be better partners next time. Or even if people are listening, and they’re like, I’m not really indicating anyone right now. That’s fine. But I find I don’t know about you, Lora. If somebody was married and they get divorced, they usually wanna be married again because they liked monogamy. That’s why they got married in the first place.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:10:35]:
They liked the idea of it. They were just not in the right marriage. And so I think that most people well, I shouldn’t say most, but so many people wanna get into another relationship. Maybe not even get remarried. Maybe just but this will set you up, working on your self, surrounding yourself with healthy people, both personal friends and professionals. Good divorce professionals will help you get to a good place so that you’ll be a really good partner in your next relationship.

Lora Cheadle [00:11:10]:
Yeah. I love how you talk about surrounding yourself with people. Because when you are surrounding yourself with people who are self reflecting, who are growing, who are learning, who are saying, oh, I just learned this about myself. That’s an icky part of me, and I am not beating up on myself, but I gotta change that. I’ve got to address that. It empowers you

Lora Cheadle [00:11:33]:
to do the work too.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:11:35]:
I was just about to say that’s so empowering because it’s in your control. You can only control yourself. You can’t control how your ex is gonna act. Yep. You can can’t control those toxic friends, but you know what you can do? Get them out of your life. Like, if people are listening and you’re thinking of somebody who you come home from dinner, every time you go out to lunch or dinner with them, you think, why did I do that? They just make me feel bad about myself. They could be jealous of you. They could just not be right you know, a good fit for your personality.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:12:10]:
Whatever the reason is, if they’re not making you feel great and lifting you up Mhmm. You you might wanna just think about you don’t have to have some dramatic breakup. Just distance yourself and surround yourself with all of these women who are gonna lift you up and you know have your back and who you you get home from seeing them and you feel amazing. That’s how I felt at after that conference I saw you at, Lora.

Lora Cheadle [00:12:37]:
Yes.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:12:37]:
These women were amazing. I felt great for days.

Lora Cheadle [00:12:42]:
Yes. Me too. And I think back on it, and it lights me up even just having those memories. And, you know, I wanna say this, and some people might go, oh, I can’t believe you just said that, but I’m gonna say it. Sometimes it’s your spouse that that is the person that’s a little toxic, that’s dragging you down. And it’s okay. Start noticing it. Start noticing it.

Lora Cheadle [00:13:03]:
It’s not like you have to decide to divorce them in the 5 minutes after you have started admitting to yourself that they are the ones that drag you down, but just start noticing it and start being around other more positive people. And I think it can also help you decide because I know deciding, do I want a divorce, is a big darn thing. And sometimes it’s okay just to hang out in that space of, I don’t know who’s lifting me up. I don’t know who’s dragging me down. I just kinda need to float around, meet people, work on myself, and then I’ll know what to do.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:13:37]:
Well, I think the first step, if you have a spouse you think might be a little toxic, Talk to the spouse. You gotta say, look, babe. When you say this about me, it hurts my feelings. Now if you’re listening to this, I know it’s uncomfortable. You don’t wanna get in a fight, but getting into a little bit of a tiff is better than doing nothing and building up resentment and just saying to yourself, he’s toxic. I need to get away from him. At least tell him so you’ll know. If he reacts badly, won’t speak to you for days, well, now you kinda have your answer.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:14:14]:
Now you have a whole new set of reasons. Okay. Maybe this isn’t gonna work out. But just say, it hurts me. When people say I’m hurt

Lora Cheadle [00:14:24]:
Yes.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:14:25]:
The person you say that to, their defenses go down immediately. If you say I’m really angry with you, then they go, oh, well, I’m angry with you too. But if you say you’re really hurting me, then they’re like, oh, okay. Because you’ve exposed your vulnerability, and that’s not about them. And if they love you, which I’m sure your spouse does, even if they’re a little toxic, then they don’t wanna hurt you. They love you. And so it’s a much better word.

Lora Cheadle [00:14:53]:
Mhmm. I like that. That’s that’s a really good, piece of information. And, also, like that, if you do say that and they respond poorly, like you said, that’s more information for you to use.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:15:06]:
So many yeah.

Lora Cheadle [00:15:07]:
And so many of my listeners, after finding out about their partners in Fidelity, they would like to work on it. They would like to try to save the marriage. They would like to figure it out, and that really involves creating an entirely new relationship and doing things differently. Even though you weren’t the one that cheated, you still have to take responsibility, do the work, and just like that, learn how to communicate better. And maybe instead of saying, you jerk face, you cheated on me, you broke my heart, blah blah blah, coming out that from a different perspective, I’m hurt. And like that, opening yourself up and creating more connection instead of creating more hate and division.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:15:52]:
Alright. Now I have to ask you something. Did you ever see the show, The Affair, on Showtime? No. I didn’t. You have to watch it because because of what you do. So I just finished watching it. I it’s 5 seasons, and they portray cheating and marriage and divorce and forgiveness in the most accurate way I think I have ever seen. It is so realistic.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:16:19]:
Like, he cheats. She then wants to get back together and work on it, but then he doesn’t. I don’t want to spoil the plot for anybody listening, but it was such a beautiful message of forgiveness. And she ended up taking accountability for the cheating. Not not that it was her fault he cheated, but she took accountability for some of the things that she did that might have contributed to him being unhappy. Not that it was right that he cheated Right. But he worked on it and said, wow. I never really knew you felt that way.

Lora Cheadle [00:16:56]:
Wow. I’m gonna have to watch that. Thank you for that. I tend to not watch things that portray affairs because they are usually so inaccurate. So it’s really good to hear that there’s something out there that’s well done.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:17:10]:
And you know what? It’s so funny because you’re right. Usually, they are. And for example, there was a show, called divorce on HBO, and I watched it because I’m like, well, this is my business. I gotta see what this is all about. And it was not I’m I mean, I’m sorry to say this. It was terrible, and it didn’t it wasn’t realistic to me at all. And I was like, well, I went through a divorce. I, this is definitely not what it’s like.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:17:35]:
Not it. And then I found out that, like, all of the actors and the writers, no one was divorced. So I was like, well, how can you write a show about divorce when, like, you don’t really know what’s going on? So I’d be interested to know if the writers and the producers and the actors of the affair were divorced because that to me was spot on. Yeah.

Lora Cheadle [00:17:55]:
Oh, that’s interesting. I’m gonna have to check that out. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for that. Okay. You had just mentioned that you had gone through a divorce. Would you mind sharing a little bit about what you wish you would have known then that you know now?

Jackie Pilossoph [00:18:10]:
Everything. So I got divorced when I was 41. I didn’t get married till I was 35. I had kids right away because I was older. And I had lived independently for so long that for me, I’m not gonna say my divorce wasn’t traumatic. It was with 2 young kids, no family in town. No. I didn’t even know one person who was divorced at that time because it was 2,008.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:18:35]:
And, you know, I live in a suburban community, and everybody was happily married. And I was known as, like, the divorced person, the divorced girl. And so it was it was really hard, but I had been independent. Now so many people that I talk to who come to my site and message me, they’ve never lived independently. They went right from the college or whatever, got married, and that would be really hard too. But, there are so many things that I wish I would have known. I’ve written articles. Twelve things I wish I would have known, 20 things I wish I would have known.

Lora Cheadle [00:19:08]:
Right.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:19:08]:
But one of the key things that was not available to me when I got divorced because it was 2,000 8, was finding trusted professionals to work with that I could really trust and who would give me a good outcome and a good post divorce life. And what I mean by that is there was no such thing as a divorce coach back then. Right now, I would tell anyone getting a divorce to hire a divorce coach. Yes. It costs more money, but you’re gonna save more money, and you’re gonna get a better divorce outcome probably with more money if you have guidance, somebody to hold your hand along the way, inspire you, tell you how it is, hold your hand, and just make you feel emotionally better, but also help you make better decisions during the divorce. The other thing is now there’s certified divorce financial analyst that will help you with your finances. There are divorce real estate agents. They don’t charge any more than other real estate agents, but they’re trained.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:20:11]:
They have this certification to help you when you’re selling your house during a divorce. They’re certified mortgage lenders, certified divorce lending professional. Those people, they don’t charge any more than a regular mortgage lender, but they specialize, and they have a certificate where they’ve been trained to help people going through a divorce. So see what I’m saying, Lora?

Lora Cheadle [00:20:33]:
If you

Jackie Pilossoph [00:20:33]:
have all these people on your team, you’re gonna get a better outcome because they’re knowledgeable. They dedicated their careers to helping you. And that is one of the big things about divorce girls smiling. If you go to divorce girls smiling.com, you’ll find a list of my trusted, vetted divorce professionals who you can then have consultations with and decide if they’re a good fit for you. They’ve been vetted extensively by me and my advisory board. We know them. They’re really good people.

Lora Cheadle [00:21:04]:
Yeah. I’ll I appreciate so much that you said that because before I started doing betrayal recovery coaching, I was an attorney. And let me just tell you, attorneys are not trained to handle emotional issues. Attorneys are trained to handle legal issues, and I cannot tell you how many times attorneys get frustrated when clients come in and ask all of these emotional questions that don’t have anything to do with the law. And they’re giving it their best shot, but they don’t know the answer. They they just they don’t know. And then you’re paying $300 an hour, $500 an hour for an attorney who’s like, I don’t know. I don’t I I don’t know if the law says this.

Lora Cheadle [00:21:45]:
I don’t use a coach. A coach will hold your hand. A coach will touch on the emotional things. A and a coach will help you and guide you, whereas attorneys solve legal problems. Use your attorney

Jackie Pilossoph [00:22:01]:
yeah. And then another thing is that you can use the coach for is after you’ve gone through this divorce now, you’re thinking, what the hell do I wanna do with my life? I’m divorced. Maybe you have to go back to work, or maybe you’re just gonna have a lot more time on your hands. And you you don’t know what you’re supposed to do, especially women over 40. Because everybody does something different that they did before they got married and had kids. So it’s like, what am I supposed to do now? These divorce coaches, I’m telling you, they’re trained to ask you questions and do exercises with you to help you figure it out.

Lora Cheadle [00:22:37]:
Yes. Yes. And what I’m gonna say on that too, it takes time. It takes time. It takes energy, and it is worth every penny. When I yeah. When I coach with people, I sure. I’ll see you one off.

Lora Cheadle [00:22:56]:
I wanna see you for 6 months. I wanna see you for 3 months. I wanna form a relationship with you. I wanna see your ups. I wanna see your downs. I wanna guide you because it takes time. And instead of spinning your wheels for 2 years and going back to school and realizing that’s not what I wanna do and then doing this and then doing that, Pay the money to a divorce coach, see them, they’ll help you figure it out, and you will go further faster with their guidance. So I love that you mentioned after the divorce.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:23:25]:
Absolutely. What are some other things I learned from my divorce? Let me think. Yes. You have to have patience. So divorce takes a long time. We live in a society where people say, Siri. They think they can say, Siri, give me a divorce, and they have a divorce. Look.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:23:44]:
Sir my Siri just went off. Like, wouldn’t

Lora Cheadle [00:23:47]:
that be nice?

Jackie Pilossoph [00:23:49]:
Right. And people need answers now. They can’t wait. And you if you’re listening to this and you’re thinking of getting divorced, I want your listeners to know, it’s gonna take minimal a year, and that’s if you’re lucky. And just accept it and say, you know what? This is a long process, but it’s eventually gonna end, and you have to be patient. It’s hard. It’s really hard. And you have to try to have a life because you don’t wanna just give up your life for a year.

Lora Cheadle [00:24:21]:
No. No. That’s a good point. It’s how can you be happy while you’re going through it? How can you continue to grow and evolve while you’re going through it? Because, no, it’s not it’s not gonna be fast.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:24:33]:
Right. Mhmm. Right. Mhmm. Do you want some more things I learned from my divorce?

Lora Cheadle [00:24:39]:
Give me one more thing that you learned from your divorce because I know there is so much out there.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:24:44]:
Okay. I learned that I learned a lot about anger. So a lot of people will say to me, like, how do I stop being angry about my divorce? And what I tell them is, like, I can’t tell you how to stop. The only person who can let you go of your anger is you. But I can offer things that can help foster letting go. You know, like, acknowledging that first of all, you have to feel the anger. I worry most about people getting divorced who are like, well, I’m not angry because like, one woman said to me, he had cancer and okay. I’m sorry.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:25:28]:
I had cancer. I didn’t break up with my boy long term boyfriend. So I worry about people who say they’re not angry. You have to be angry. You have to feel it and be pissed and punch a pillow and cry and say, like, why why is this happening to me? It’s not fair. Okay. But then after a while, we’re talking about letting it go after, like, a little while, not hanging on to it forever. So you you you have to acknowledge that anger doesn’t mean forgetting what your ex did, forgetting that he cheated, pretending it didn’t happen because you know deep down what the truth is.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:26:04]:
Nobody expects you to forget it, but that doesn’t mean you can’t forgive. Forgiving doesn’t mean forgetting that it happened and saying it’s okay. Forgiving means I’m getting this toxic emotion out of my system so that I can make room for good stuff so that I can have a really good life moving forward.

Lora Cheadle [00:26:25]:
Yeah. Because forgiveness is about you. It’s not about the other person, and you never need to go to them and say, I forgive you. It’s all about you. It has nothing to do with them. Nothing. Yeah. Nothing.

Lora Cheadle [00:26:39]:
Now, also, I would like to start transitioning into the idea of possibly dating after a divorce because I know I know you’ve got some great information on that, and I know that you’ve got a book that’s coming out on that too. But before we go there, I really wanna sum up the idea, the fact that if you don’t change and you go into another relationship, it’s not gonna change. You have to, if you want a different relationship, become a different person, and that’s something that I just really want a foot stomp. Yes. In this situation, your partner cheated on you, but you still need to grow yourself. You still need to become a different person. And what are your thoughts around that?

Jackie Pilossoph [00:27:27]:
Best advice. Best advice, Lora. First of all, you don’t wanna choose another cheater. So you have to examine maybe it’s a pattern that you’re choosing cheaters. And then you’re right. You have to work on yourself so that you can be the best partner possible because then you’ll have the happiest, most meaningful, best relationship. Absolutely. And it’s funny.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:27:51]:
I know this divorce coach who started out as a dating coach, And then she said to me, I think I’m now a both a divorce and a dating coach because she started coaching these women, and she didn’t realize that every they needed to work on themselves before they could start dating. So she said so she has, like, half and half clientele. And some people she’ll say to them, you know what? Look. You need to work on yourself. Let’s do this first. And then after a couple sessions, we’ll talk about you dating. But first, we have to fix these issues with you.

Lora Cheadle [00:28:27]:
Wow. I love that.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:28:28]:
Mhmm. Me too.

Lora Cheadle [00:28:30]:
Yeah. So well done. Yeah. Because it’s true. And I also love something you just said, choose another cheater. Wow. I know so many, yeah, so many of my women, that I work with will say things like that. I’m gonna find somebody else who won’t cheat.

Lora Cheadle [00:28:48]:
Well, first of all, how do you know that?

Jackie Pilossoph [00:28:50]:
Mhmm.

Lora Cheadle [00:28:51]:
You know? And then sometimes people say, well, if I stay, and how will he cheat again? Or or will he cheat again? And how will I know? I mean, it’s a real fear because we can’t control the other person, whether it’s the same person in a new relationship or an entirely different person. We don’t have any control over anybody but ourselves. Darn it.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:29:12]:
I know. But I feel like and this is your wheelhouse here, Lora. If I was with someone who cheated and then I decided to work it out, I would be afraid every time they got a text after 9 o’clock at night. Like, I’d be like, ding. Who’s that? I wanna see your phone.

Lora Cheadle [00:29:30]:
If I’m

Jackie Pilossoph [00:29:31]:
sure that is really hard for people, both people, because maybe the cheater really wants to work it out. And and they’re like, here, look at my phone. It’s my boss. Look. And that would be really hard.

Lora Cheadle [00:29:45]:
Yeah. It is hard. It’s really hard because you have to develop such a strong sense of self trust in yourself that you can handle that because, otherwise, it does crumple you. And then you also have to develop such strong communication skills with your partner that you can navigate difficult conversations like that because they do come up more often than you would think they would ever come up.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:30:12]:
Yeah. I’m sure. Mhmm. Mhmm.

Lora Cheadle [00:30:15]:
So let’s talk about dating. Mhmm.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:30:19]:
So when you are ready to date, feel like you’re ready. So I wanna tell your listeners, I really walked the walk. So I guess you start dating when you’re, like, 16, 17. So I dated from 16 until the time I was 35. I got divorced at 41. I then dated from 41 to 49. And then I met the love of my life, and I’ve never dated since. So but I had a little, I broke up with someone when I was 49 and had a few dates in between.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:30:55]:
So I definitely have vast experience in dating in all different age ranges as well. I dated, you know, every decade I dated of my life except for really my fifties. But what I wanna tell your listeners is that the reason so I have a new book coming out in literally 2 weeks. It’s called Who Let the Dogs Out, an Empowering, Funny, and Inspiring Guide to Dating After Divorce. And I wrote the book because I feel like it is my best divorce advice divorce and dating after divorce advice that I have ever given. And I did it based on all the men that I dated after my divorce. So there’s a lot of here are the mistakes I made because I don’t want people to read any dating advice book and think I’m judging them. I made so many mistakes.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:31:50]:
You can’t even count. So it’s I’m trying to help people avoid those mistakes and have a better experience than I did.

Lora Cheadle [00:32:00]:
So the

Jackie Pilossoph [00:32:01]:
chapter of my book is a different story of my dating life after divorce and what I learned, basically.

Lora Cheadle [00:32:12]:
What I appreciate about what you just said too about all the dating is, so often I will have people say to me, I will get divorced, and then I will find the love of my life. And then people will say, dating is so frustrating. This is so awful. I haven’t found anybody. Just like divorce, you have to be patient and it takes a long time. I feel like with dating, you have to be patient and it takes a long time. It’s not just that thing. Prince Charming’s here.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:32:40]:
I always compare dating to shopping at, like, Nordstrom Rack. You know how you go into Nordstrom Rack and you sift through all this crap? And then all of a sudden, you see this, like, blouse, and you’re like, oh, this is nice. Like a diamond in the rough. And that’s kinda how dating is. But I believe when you’re dating all of these guys who are like, you come home and you’re like, that was awful. I can’t do this anymore. I didn’t even like the guy from the minute I saw him. I don’t, you know, I had to then spend an hour and a half having dinner with him, and I’m sick of this.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:33:17]:
Try to think of something good that came out of it even when you’re actually on the date. If you’re like, there’s no way I’m ever kissing this guy. It’s out of a question. It’s not happening. And you know that the minute you see him. Mhmm. Just say to yourself, like, I’m gonna open my mind, and maybe this guy and I are gonna become good friends. Maybe this guy has a a a brother or a cousin or a friend, and that’s gonna be the love of my life.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:33:43]:
Maybe I have a friend for him. Maybe he’s interesting. Maybe we’re gonna laugh a lot. Start asking questions like you’re interviewing someone so that you can really get to know people. Because I have a really good attitude, and I believe that most people in life bring something to the table. And you have to find it, and it’s so nice to find it because it’s just enriching your life instead of being like, nope. Cross him off the list. Forget it.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:34:09]:
I’m on this, you know, fast track to get married. He’s not the one. I’m moving on. Just just relax. Take a breath. Get to know this guy. He might bring something to your table.

Lora Cheadle [00:34:22]:
I think that’s a great perspective because you’re right. If it’s not that person, it might be somebody else. I was at a luncheon, oh, maybe 2 months ago right now, and they were talking about selling. And the concept was not selling to. The concept was selling through. You can’t meet all the people that need your services, but you can meet people who know people who use your services. And when you said that, that’s what I thought about too. It’s not necessarily dating and marrying that person.

Lora Cheadle [00:34:54]:
It’s through them other things can open up.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:34:57]:
Very, very good analogy. Very good. And another thing about people going on dates is, like, people say to me, oh, I have a date tonight. I really hope he likes me. He looks so good on the app. You know, good picture. All he’s checking off all the boxes. Instead of that, why not go in with the attitude of, like, I hope I like him because he’s really lucky if he gets me.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:35:26]:
And I hope we like each other. You don’t even have to be that, you know, focused on yourself. But, like, I hope we can act because he really looks good to me. Don’t feel like you are desperate and that you have to meet someone. If you already have kids, then you’re not getting married to have kids. Right. If you like and I’m gonna tell your listeners. When I first got divorced, I was only 41.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:35:50]:
And, technically, I was kinda like, I could have more kids. I mean, I love being a mother. And I Yeah. You know, not that I was wanting them, but I would have. Maybe until the age of, like, 45. And I remember just my strategy was find husband number 2. That I got divorced, and that’s all I wanted. I just wanted to be married again, and I was gonna meet someone.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:36:13]:
And guess what? It backfired so badly. I I dated the worst people. It was a disaster. It was a complete disaster, and it wasn’t until I start it saying, why do you need somebody to make your life so good? That I ended up starting to meet better people and start not and I wasn’t settling because I didn’t need to settle. And I think that the longer somebody is divorced, the more independent and used to being by yourself that is, whether that’s good or bad. And it’s those people at the beginning of the divorce who are so used to being married that they just wanna be married again because that’s what feels comfortable to them.

Lora Cheadle [00:36:53]:
Yeah. Yeah. Isn’t that funny? The whole concept of the the independence versus used to be married. And is it the person, or is it just that you wanna be in that state and anybody will do?

Jackie Pilossoph [00:37:05]:
Yeah. And that’s why there’s the second marriage divorce rate is 70%, because people rushed into it, or they met someone and they were so shocked that they met someone that they had to take it all the way. They couldn’t just wait. And, you know, you don’t have to wait as long as I did. I’ve been with someone for 9 years, and we’re not married, but he is the love of my life. We are very happy, and we didn’t feel like we needed to be married. We didn’t even live together until all of our kids went to college. Yeah.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:37:37]:
And so we we waited. And I’m not judging and saying like, oh, I’m so holier than thou because I waited. But I’m saying, don’t get married in the 1st year or 2. Just wait. There’s no rush.

Lora Cheadle [00:37:51]:
Yeah. Yeah. There is no rush. And divorce is expensive, and it’s messy, and it’s time consuming. Whether yeah. I mean, whether deciding to get divorced or deciding to get married, so often, we just need to slow down, take a breath,

Jackie Pilossoph [00:38:07]:
bring on and and think about ourselves and what we want that has nothing to do with a relationship. Just that has to do with making our lives happier and more fulfilling and feeling good and helping others. And then if you have someone that’s wonderful. It’s a wonderful add on. That is my opinion.

Lora Cheadle [00:38:28]:
Yeah. I love that. So what is that balance do you think between working on yourself and taking care of yourself and loving yourself and growing your own independence while at the same time being with somebody else? Because it seems like you’ve done an excellent job at that.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:38:43]:
Aw, thanks. That means a lot since I just told you that out of the gate, I was like, I’m meeting husband number 2. But, I think that I tell people this. You can’t sit on the couch every night and watch Netflix shows and expect to be to meet someone. If you do that, your chances of meeting somebody are 0. But you can’t go out and try to meet someone so desperately that that’s your whole focus. So it’s gotta be somewhere in between those two things. And only you can decide.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:39:14]:
If you feel like you’re burning out, take a month off. Mhmm. You’re not under any pressure. And for those of you who have parents who say, like, you know, I just want you to meet a nice guy, You can’t live for them. You have to live for yourself and what’s gonna make you happy.

Lora Cheadle [00:39:33]:
Yeah. Is it that’s a hard one because we still, even though we’re adults, even though we know better, we still seek to please. And especially like that, we seek to please family all too often. Absolutely. Yeah. So what is the best way do you think to meet people? Because I know you’ve mentioned dating apps, and I know a lot of people who were married young, life changes, and they’re like, I don’t know what a dating app is. Where do I go to meet people? How how do you even start that?

Jackie Pilossoph [00:40:04]:
So the biggest way people meet people are on dating apps, but there is a study that shows that even though that’s the way the biggest way people meet other people, it doesn’t mean it’s not the biggest leader to marriage. It doesn’t lead to marriage as much as meeting someone other ways. So other ways, I truly believe I’m really old fashioned like this. Setups are the best way to meet someone. And how do you get set up? You basically tell everybody you know that you would like to start dating. People are probably thinking, oh, that makes me sound so desperate. No. You make me sound really smart.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:40:47]:
It’s like if you were looking for a new job. You would use your network. You would go to your friends and say, hey. I’m looking for a job. Here’s the field I wanna get into. Do you know anyone? You would go on LinkedIn. Now and I believe LinkedIn is not a bad thing for for dating. But I think you need to just mention to, like, almost everyone you feel comfortable with.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:41:09]:
You know, I got divorced a couple years ago. I’m really ready to start dating. Boy, I’d love for her to meet someone. Do you know anyone? And he might say, you know, there’s a boy, I’d love her to meet someone. Do you know anyone? And he might say, you know, there’s this guy in my office that just got divorced. And, yeah, maybe she’d like him. Because if you don’t say anything, they’re not gonna think that without you saying something. And I actually think I might be stealing this from Charlotte in Sex and the City.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:41:39]:
Because remember when she was like, I am getting married and so she started asking everyone she knew. Right. And then she went out to dinner, and she was getting hit on by the girl’s husband. And then she ran out of the restaurant, almost got hit by a car, and Trey saved her. And she ended up marrying him, but then they got divorced. But then she got married again.

Lora Cheadle [00:42:01]:
That’s okay. I, yeah, I like that, and it’s so simple. It’s so simple. Tell people, I think I’m gonna date again. I’m interested in dating again. So simple.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:42:13]:
Yeah. Do you or your husband know anybody maybe? If you do, I’d love for you to think of me. Yeah. Doesn’t sound desperate to me.

Lora Cheadle [00:42:21]:
I don’t think it sounds desperate. You’re right. I think it sounds smart. You’re letting people know. I think think I’m gonna do this again. So what about a recommended time frame between, like, divorce and dating, and should you date while you’re getting a divorce? And what are your thoughts on that?

Jackie Pilossoph [00:42:37]:
Well, I feel like people judge people who date right away. But here’s the thing that you probably don’t realize. If you’re going through a divorce, you’ve probably been unhappy for several years, or you might have felt alone and isolated. Maybe you never talked, and you and your husband were living as roommates for 3 years. Well, 3 years is a long time, so you might be ready to date on day 1 of your separation.

Lora Cheadle [00:43:10]:
Yeah. Because you’re free. You’re finally free. Yeah. Yeah.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:43:13]:
And you feel like, okay. It’s legal now. You know? I mean, I’m getting divorced, but don’t date for the wrong reasons. Like, I know a guy. I should have put this in my book. There’s a lot of dating stories that aren’t in my book. But there was this guy I dated, and his wife left him for this other man. And she was getting married to the other guy, like, soon after the divorce.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:43:35]:
Wow. You he was, like, in a competition with her. He was calling me honey, baby, sweetie after, like, date number 2 and saying, I want you to feel comfortable and sleep over all the time. And I was like, wait. What? We’ve been out, like, twice. And he was a really nice guy, but I think he was in it for all the wrong reasons. He just wanted a body. He wanted somebody because his wife had someone.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:43:58]:
So maybe ask yourself, like, why do I wanna date? What are my motivations? Do I just wanna play the field and have some fun and kinda test the waters, or am I looking for husband number 2, which I’m not saying that’s wrong? If you feel like you’re in a really good place that and you felt like you worked on yourself, great. Mhmm. Or am I just looking for monogamy, commitment, and but I don’t wanna get married, or I’m looking for a boy toy. It’s all whatever you want, but you have to ask yourselves and be honest with yourself of why you’re dating. Why? Yeah.

Lora Cheadle [00:44:35]:
I think that’s really good advice. What is my motivation? Because being honest with yourself is going to lead to the right results. And if you’re saying one thing and then doing another, of course, you’re gonna be dissatisfied. Of course, you’re gonna attract the wrong people. So thank you for saying that because just ask yourself, what are my motivations? And even if your motivation is, you know, I kinda want a little revenge right now or be honest. That’s what you want.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:45:02]:
Right. And, also, like, I remember I was dating this guy. This is in my book, actually. And he was really not treating me well. He didn’t want anything more than, like, an occasional hookup. And I told myself, like, oh, this is perfect. I don’t want anything right now, but I did. And then I finally realized, like, this isn’t what I want.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:45:29]:
Why am I convincing myself that I want what he wants when I know deep down I deserve better?

Lora Cheadle [00:45:37]:
Yeah. Yeah. One of the things I talk a lot about is self betrayal, and that sounds like a whole lot of self betrayal too. I will convince myself even though that’s not what I want. And sometimes it is hard or uncomfortable to stand in our truth. Like, I do wanna get married. You know? And people are saying, you don’t need to. No.

Lora Cheadle [00:45:56]:
But I want to. So, yeah, be strong. Check your motivation and

Jackie Pilossoph [00:46:01]:
do it. Say, like, you don’t wanna get married right now. Have fun. Usually, they’re married people, and they don’t have any idea what it’s like to go through a divorce. So they say, just have fun.

Lora Cheadle [00:46:12]:
Right.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:46:12]:
Well, that’s what you would do if you were getting divorced, but that’s not right for me. No. So nobody should be judging you. And if they are, you need to just ignore them.

Lora Cheadle [00:46:22]:
Exactly. And even one layer more removed, it’s what they think they would do if they were getting a divorce. And if they were actually getting a divorce, it might not be what they would do at all.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:46:34]:
Well, how many people do you know who are married who say, oh, if my wife cheated and I got divorced, I would never get married again? No. Every married person says that. Yes. Every single one.

Lora Cheadle [00:46:47]:
Yeah. And same thing. Everybody also says if my partner ever cheated, I’d be out of there. I’d take him for all the birth. I’d be out of there. Do you know more than half of people who have been cheated on stay in the relationship? You don’t know until you’re there.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:47:03]:
Wonderful. I know people who have cheated and they ended up divorced and people who cheated and it worked out. I’m telling you, there’s this one woman, Her husband I I judged for so long, and now they’re so happy. And it took me a really long time to even, like, be nice to her husband, but it it worked out well for them. They’re happy. As long as you’re happy, there’s no wrong decision. The only wrong decision is to stay in a situation where you’re not happy.

Lora Cheadle [00:47:35]:
Oh, yeah. So well said. So well said. There is no wrong decision. The only wrong decision is keeping yourself somewhere where you’re not happy. I love that, Jackie. Thank you.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:47:45]:
Should put that on a Canva graphic

Lora Cheadle [00:47:49]:
and I think we should too. Oh, that’s something to live by. Well, before we close out, I like you to let listeners know where they can find you, your website, your podcast, all of that stuff.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:48:02]:
So just one place, go to divorced girl smiling.com, and you can get to my podcast that way. Or you can listen to my podcast on Apple or anywhere podcasts are found. And you can read articles on Divorced Girl Smiling. You can find trusted, vetted divorce professionals. I have a mobile app you can download. And I also offer a free consult where if you’re thinking about getting divorced or going through 1 and you wanna talk to me, I give people 30 minutes. You can vent. You can tell me everything.

Jackie Pilossoph [00:48:35]:
It’s free. It’s completely confidential. And then I can connect you with people who I think could help you. So that’s what I do during my free consults.

Lora Cheadle [00:48:45]:
Yeah. Highly, highly, highly useful. So listeners, definitely reach out. And in the meantime, have an amazing because who you are because who you are is always more than enough.

Narrator [00:49:03]:
To all the women who have cried in the shower, smiled when they wanted to scream, and couldn’t wait to get home and unhook their bra. Flaunt is the definitive guidebook on how to get back in touch with who you are underneath your labels, roles, and scripts. Fall in love with yourself right now. Breathe life into the dreams you left behind and live each day with uninhibited joy. Pick up a copy of Lora Cheadle’s number one best selling book Flaunt. Drop your cover and reveal your smart, sexy, and spiritual self wherever books are sold. It’s available in print, digital, and audio formats and comes with 2 downloadable meditations.

Narrator [00:49:44]:
Tune in next time to flaunt, find your sparkle and create a life you love after infidelity or betrayal with Lora Cheadle every Wednesday at 7 AM and 7 PM Eastern Standard Time on syndicated DreamVision 7 Radio Network. Uncover the truth of what’s possible for you on the other side of betrayal and develop the skills and strategies necessary to embrace the future and flourish today. Download your free betrayal recovery toolkit at betrayalrecoveryguide.com.