Why Understanding Your Attachment Style Isn’t Enough After Infidelity -with Bryan Power

podcast cover with picture of Bryan Power in blue shirt

Attachment theory is everywhere right now — anxious, avoidant, fearful, secure — but after infidelity, simply understanding your attachment style doesn’t stop the emotional whiplash.

In this powerful episode, Lora Cheadle is joined by Bryan Power, a Certified Integrated Attachment Theory Coach, for an honest, grounded conversation about how attachment wounds actually manifest after betrayal—and what it really takes to heal them.

Together, they break down the four attachment styles, explore why betrayal hits attachment at its core, and walk through the six pillars of Integrated Attachment Theory — practical tools that move you from survival and confusion into clarity, safety, and secure connection.

This episode goes beyond theory. You’ll learn why insight alone doesn’t regulate the nervous system, how subconscious wounds drive behavior, and what helps betrayed partners stop feeling “crazy” when triggers hit — without excusing betrayal or bypassing accountability.

If you’ve ever thought, “I know what’s happening — so why does it still hurt this much?” — this episode is for you.

 

 

Top 3 Takeaways

  1. Knowing your attachment style doesn’t equal healing
    You can name your pattern perfectly and still panic when your partner withdraws. Healing happens through felt safety, not logic alone.
  2. Betrayal exposes unhealed attachment wounds — in both partners
    Infidelity doesn’t come from nowhere. It often reveals deep subconscious beliefs around safety, abandonment, worth, and betrayal that were never healed.
  3. Secure attachment is built — not born
    Through the six pillars of Integrated Attachment Theory — core wounds, needs, emotions, boundaries, communication, and behavior — couples can move toward safety, clarity, and conscious connection.

 

Favorite Quote

“Attachment wounds don’t heal through understanding. They heal through safety — again and again — in real time.”

About Bryan Power

In 2024, Bryan Power and his wife would go from having a pretty good relationship to a complete relationship failure. That failure culminated in a restraining order that his wife would put against him for her emotional safety. During that breakup, Bryan would discover the Integrated Attachment Theory Program, which would ultimately provide him with the insights and tools necessary to put their relationship back together. Now Bryan uses his inspirational story, personal insights, and the integrated attachment theory program to teach others how to use their breakup to get the breakthroughs they have been looking for.

Resources & Links

 

Bryan Power

About Bryan Power

In 2024, Bryan Power and his wife would go from having a pretty good relationship to a complete relationship failure. That failure culminated in a restraining order that his wife would put against him for her emotional safety. During that breakup, Bryan would discover the Integrated Attachment Theory Program, which would ultimately provide him with the insights and tools necessary to put their relationship back together. Now Bryan uses his inspirational story, personal insights, and the integrated attachment theory program to teach others how to use their breakup to get the breakthroughs they have been looking for. 

Resources & Links

https://www.myrelationshipfail.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanwpower/

https://www.youtube.com/@myrelationshipfail

https://www.instagram.com/myrelationshipfail/

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I'm Lora Cheadle

I’m Lora Cheadle, JD, CHt—a betrayal recovery expert, attorney, TEDx speaker, and author of FLAUNT! and It’s Not Burnout, It’s Betrayal. After uncovering my husband’s 15-year affair, I turned my own pain into purpose, helping high-achieving women reclaim their identity, power, and joy. As a trauma-aware coach and somatic therapist, I blend legal clarity with emotional and spiritual healing to guide women toward full-spectrum recovery.

Lora's Books

Flaunt! by Lora Cheadle
It’s Not Burnout, It’s Betrayal: 5 Tools to FUEL UP & Thrive

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Get the Transcript

  • Lora Cheadle [00:00:01]: You’re listening to Flaunt. Find your sparkle and create a life you love after Infidelity or Betrayal. A podcast for women who’ve been betrayed by their intimate partner and want to turn their devastation into an invitation to reclaim themselves and their worth. Tune in weekly so you can start making sense of it all and learn how to be okay on the inside, no matter what goes on on the outside. Download your free betrayal Recovery toolkit@betrayalrecoveryguide. Dot. Attachment style. Oh, my gosh. Lora Cheadle [00:00:37]: There is so much conversation about attachment style and are you anxious? Are you avoidant? What does this mean? Oh, my gosh, am I normal? What does this matter? How does this, you know, apply to me, to my partner, to my situation? When we’ve had infidelity, when things have fallen apart, how can we get back together and what does it mean? We are going to talk a little bit about that today, but we are really going to move into some amazing practical tools, practical pillars, so you can learn more about yourself and your way of relating, your partner and their way of relating. Whether you are together or not. This information is going to really help you understand how to show up better. And it’s. It’s going to give you hope because I know from my experience with infidelity and betrayal, it’s so awful when you don’t have hope and there’s so much negativity out there that leave the person, they’re awful and leopards don’t change their spots and all of this stuff. So we are going to move into a lot of hope, a lot of clarity, and a lot of real tools. So by the end of this show today, you are going to feel empowered, centered, and clear. My guest is Brian Power and he is a certified integrated attachment theory coach. Lora Cheadle [00:02:09]: And yeah, he’s had a lot of his own experiences, from relationship failure to very positive, healthy relationships. So with that, welcome to the show, Brian. I’m looking forward to our conversation. Bryan Power [00:02:24]: Thanks, Laura. That’s an exciting introduction for sure. I’m excited to be a part of this show. It just sounds good. But yeah, no attachment theory and how we attach in relationships and all those wounds and stuff that kind of play out in our relationships and how they operate, how they work to destroy a lot of times our relationships is valuable information. And so I’m excited to be here today. Thank you so much. It’s an honor to be able to share my story and some of the information that I shared today. Brian Power [00:02:48]: I’m on a mission to literally save as many relationships as I possibly can. So Anytime I. I get the chance to share this information, it’s. It’s truly an honor and a pleasure. So thanks for having me on the show. Lora Cheadle [00:02:57]: Yeah, you’re welcome. Okay, let’s start just with a quick, basic, basic introduction of what is attachment theory? What does that even mean, and how does it apply to relationships? Brian Power [00:03:09]: Yeah, attachment theory is basically this whole premise that of how we attach in relationships. And it’s been around really since the 60s, 70s, um, and it’s really kind of popular again, I think today. Kind of a catchphrase out there right now is, you know, what’s your attachment style? Like you said, you know, are you anxious? Are you, you know, fearful? Are you, you know, you know, dismissive? All this stuff. So basically, there’s four different attachment styles, and number one, you have what’s called a secure attachment style. These are typically very emotionally, you know, balanced people. They. They’re very good at communicating. They really kind of, you know, they value relationships, but they’re not, you know, it’s not over the top where they have to be in a relationship. Brian Power [00:03:45]: You know, they know how to communicate their. Their needs a little bit, set boundaries. It’s all those things that we all want to be able to do in a good way, but unfortunately, a lot of us haven’t learned those skills, those tools. And unfortunately, I think most of us are going to fall into one of the other three unhealthy attachment styles. And that’s where the problems come in. So on the unhealthy side, you have, number one, you have, like, an anxious, preoccupied attachment style. They’re very clingy. They really love connection. Brian Power [00:04:11]: A lot of times they have a fear of abandonment, fear of being alone. So they really love being in a relationship. And a lot of times, hyper communicative. Hyper communicative. They love communication, right. All day long, just texting or communicating in one way or another, making sure they’re kind of connected to you to the point where it’s unhealthy. Again, a lot of times that can drive somebody away where it’s over the top a little bit. It’s not at a balance point, if you will. Brian Power [00:04:34]: And that’s one style. The other side of that really is kind of what’s called the dismissive, avoidant, almost polar opposite. They crave a lot of independence. A lot of time. They like to process alone. Very big fear of being trapped or being, you know, committing to something that they don’t really want to be committed to. And they. They typically just, yeah, very shut down, very stonewall. Brian Power [00:04:53]: A lot of times they’ll stonewall in a relationship. They kind of don’t communicate. They’ll just shut down on emotion and pull away. And it’s very challenging. If you get those two in a relationship, you can see where that dynamic really can be kind of painful and hard to kind of navigate without the knowledge of. Of kind of what’s going on there. In between, there’s what’s called a fearful avoidant. Some people call it disorganized attachment style. Brian Power [00:05:15]: I’ve. I’ve come to know it as fearful avoidant. And that, that fearful avoidant kind of is both of those, a little bit of both. Right. They kind of can lean anxious sometimes where they’re really in. In that relationship, really connected, feeling good. And then maybe, you know, the following week they’ll swing to the other side and, and, you know, be a little bit more dismissive, a little bit more, you know, maybe even break up with you, like, kind of like just out of the blue, kind of causing some chaos. And, and so some of those. Brian Power [00:05:38]: And they have a really big betrayal wound. So that is one of their core wounds is betrayal. They just always think that they’re going to be betrayed somehow. So they’re always on that hyper alert to kind of make, you know, navigate that and protect themselves from maybe being betrayed. But those things, again, those subconscious patterns are really what’s driving the way we’re kind of acting in the relationship. And it’s not necessarily healthy. And over time, I would say it’s like a death by a thousand paper cuts or over time, it just erodes the relationship. And eventually, sometimes maybe it’s 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, 20, 30 years even some people stay together and then eventually that just falls apart because it just isn’t fulfilling. Brian Power [00:06:14]: It hasn’t been good for a while and people just don’t know how to get out of that. So they sometimes wind up breaking up or, God forbid, cheating and doing something that’s really unhealthy and kind of ending that relationship in a bad way. So it’s important to kind of learn this stuff and it makes a big difference when you do kind of know what’s going on there, you know? Right, right. Leign [00:06:32]: It does. Lora Cheadle [00:06:32]: Thank you for that summary that I think a lot of us can recognize People. Oh, that’s my dad. Oh, that’s my sister. That’s my partner. That’s so. Yes, that helps. Okay, so let’s shift to the personal. That’s that underpinning of what it is. Lora Cheadle [00:06:49]: Now let’s talk personally because you had some stuff in your relationship that kind of fell apart, and then you were able to pull it back together. I had things in my relationship that fell apart, and then I was able to pull it back together. So how does this help. How does this help us go from, okay, well, you’re this and I’m that to and now we have a healthy, happy relationship. Let’s talk about that journey, that gap. Brian Power [00:07:20]: You just snap your fingers and it’s. And it’s that easy. No, it’s not exactly. There’s going to take some work here. There’s definitely a learning curve on this thing. And for me personally, yeah, my story was basically, in 2024, my wife and I, you know, had what I thought was a pretty good relationship. We had our disagreements here and there, but I never thought that we were gonna, you know, break up or have any kind of major issues there. There was no. Brian Power [00:07:41]: There was no infidelity. There was no financial issues. There wasn’t, you know, drug abuse or anything. Kind of, you know, that really glared out where you’re like, oh, maybe, yeah, maybe that’s not a good situation. We just had our normal disagreements, fights. Couldn’t really navigate those a little bit. And those were starting to progress. Bit worse leading up to that. Brian Power [00:07:58]: You know, looking back, I can say that, right? But in early 2024, we had a little bit of a fight over my son and some parenting. And she would, at that point, challenge me to see a therapist. And at that point, I said, okay, fair enough. I will go see a therapist. I want to see what I can learn, maybe that I can grow. That’s fine. I’m open to that. But I also challenge you to see a therapist, because in my mind, she was the one with all the issues, right? And in her mind, I was the one with all the issues. Brian Power [00:08:22]: And what we quickly found out, and that’s the first step, is we have to realize that we both probably have some issues here, and that’s what we would out. So what happened was we seeing the therapist. A lot of our childhood trauma was beginning to play out, and this is something that I learned a lot about through all of this, is that a lot of times we have these patterns, these thoughts, these subconscious behaviors, and, excuse me, thoughts about ourselves, if you will, that are leading us to behave in ways that aren’t really healthy in these relationships. And we can’t even see it. We can’t even, you know, we. Until we really kind of look at it and are made aware of it, we just don’t Even know we’re doing it. And so over the next four months, my wife and I would delve into this emotional chaos. It really bec. Brian Power [00:09:01]: Really just crazy. And I thought, you know, here she. I thought she was having, like, a midlife crisis. But the more she started to pull away, the more it triggered my anxiety, my. My fear of abandonment. All of a sudden, I was anxious. I went from feeling pretty secure to anxious pretty much overnight, it seemed like. And, you know, delving into this terrible situation. Brian Power [00:09:18]: And ultimately, she would put a restraining order against me for emotional safety. That’s how emotionally clashing it was. And she just needed that space that I wasn’t able to provide for her. So she took it. And at that point, I thought the relationship was over. I thought, you know, man, this is. This is just too much. This is crazy. Brian Power [00:09:34]: I’ve never been in something like this. I’m not the kind of guy that gets a restraining order against him. I’m like, what is going on here? But I was fortunate enough to learn about attachment style, attachment theory. I learned about the subconscious, learn about how all these wounds were really driving both of us into this little bit of a chaotic situation. And I knew that my wife loved me, so it just didn’t make sense. But. But this started to make some sense the more I learned it. I started to say, wow, okay, this makes sense as to why she’s acting that way, why I’m acting this way. Brian Power [00:10:03]: And she was definitely leaning a little bit more dismissive at that time, where she was definitely looking for space, trying to, you know, isolate a lot more and stuff like that. And then I was trying to hang on to that, or I was trying to keep my family together. And I thought, that’s an honorable thing, right? And it is, right? Yeah, it’s honorable. You want to keep your family together, of course, but sometimes to the point where it’s, again, unhealthy and not being able to respect the other person’s willingness or ability to kind of meet you there sometimes drives that even a little bit further, which is what I was doing. I was literally just driving her away even further. The more I tried to hold on to the relationship and keep the family together, the more she needed that space to process and kind of do this on her own. And that’s where I learned we just have different ways of coping, different ways of processing things. And. Brian Power [00:10:44]: But that’s the key, is to understand both sides, understand, number one, myself, how I go through these things, what I’m kind of doing in properly, that, you know, I’m making some mistakes in this relationship, but then also being able to see my partner and see how they kind of process a little bit differently, see how they’re kind of. Some of their wounds may show up and how they’re. How their coping mechanisms and some of their, you know, communication and all that stuff. Now I can begin to work with that. I don’t have to internalize it as much. So when my wife pulls away, I don’t have to blame myself. It’s not like I’m a bad person or I did something majorly wrong. Sometimes it’s just the way she processes what she needs to kind of get through something on her own, and I don’t have to, like, internalize it and make it a bigger deal. Brian Power [00:11:23]: So a lot. That learning curve really, again, unfortunately, had to go through some crazy drama, crazy experience to get to this point. And that’s why I think sometimes it’s just the way it works, unfortunately. You know, it’s. It’s. You know, hindsight’s 20 20, right? If you can look back and go, boy, you know, had I known this stuff before. Yeah, but you did it, and that’s okay. The key is that we learn through these processes. Brian Power [00:11:43]: We learn through these experiences, and if we do learn and we change and we are willing to kind of do the work and actually make, you know, make the changes, then anything can happen in a relationship. And that’s what happened for us. We were able to kind of come back together, and now we have a really wonderful relationship based, you know, basically because of all the work we’ve done, you know. Lora Cheadle [00:12:02]: Yeah. I really appreciate that you said it’s not. It’s not that anybody is wrong. It’s not anybody’s fault. It’s just that we have different ways of going about things. And it’s not about making you more like me or me more like you, but it’s about that mutual. That dual recognition that, okay, this is where I am and this is where you are, and it’s both okay. But since we do love each other, how can I work with this? You know, I think as parents, we work with kids when they’re little and they’re two, and we know they can’t regulate themselves, so I’m going to work with you different. Lora Cheadle [00:12:42]: As a teenager, we know kids can maybe regulate themselves better than when they were two, but they also have this need to be separate and to express themselves and to challenge. So we work with kids differently when we know what to expect at the different ages. But then for Some reason we get into adult relationships and it’s like we have not been taught or conditioned to work with people differently based on their different needs. And I’ve. I’ve often found that fascinating. We just barrel out into the world and are like, okay, yeah, well, people, this is who I am. And people just need to understand me instead of realizing, yes. And I also need to understand who people are, what their wounds are, what their styles are, so I can work with them. Brian Power [00:13:33]: Yeah. I think the first thing is we don’t even know ourselves. You know, I didn’t know myself. Like, I don’t even know myself. Sometimes I’m like, looking back, like, I didn’t realize some of these wounds and some of the ways I was kind of perceiving the world because of my own traumatic childhood. You know, I came from a pretty dysfunctional childhood. And so all those, you know, thoughts and behaviors and some of the chaos that I witnessed was, was setting patterns in my head. You know, as, again, as an adult, you know, being a nice guy, all this other stuff doesn’t matter. Brian Power [00:13:58]: Right. There’s certain. Those little subconscious patterns of maybe not being good enough or feeling like I’m unlovable or feeling like I’m going to be alone. And so I don’t want to be alone. I want to. I want to make sure I have somebody in my life. So I’m going to cling on a little bit more. And again, subconsciously, that’s the whole point. Brian Power [00:14:13]: To me, that was a big game changer. In fact, Ty Gibson, the one that I learned most of this stuff from, she said one day and it stuck with me. She said, 95 to 97% of our decisions in life are made by the subconscious. And this is the key. The conscious cannot out will or overcome the subconscious. So even though consciously I’m thinking one thing and I think I’m confident, I think I’m behaving a certain way, blah, blah, blah. Subconsciously, my brain is doing some other things and, and triggering different emotions, triggering different patterns in my behavior that I’m often not even aware of. And that was a like, light bulb moment for me because I experienced that as, as the whole relationship was falling apart with my wife. Brian Power [00:14:52]: Consciously. I kept saying, I’m fine, I’m comfortable, I’m confident, I’m going to be okay, all these other things. But subconsciously, all of a sudden I was falling apart and I couldn’t stop the train. And it was like, bizarre. So I know that the subconscious is very powerful. And until we become aware of that, it’s really hard to get out of our own way. And so then. Then, yes, as we learn ourselves, then hopefully we can also learn our partners and some of the other styles and realize that we’re not all the same. Brian Power [00:15:19]: Just because I have certain wounds, certain ways I do things, doesn’t mean everybody else follows that same pattern. Same thought pattern, same ideas. And so that’s where we. Gets really problematic when we don’t even know ourselves and then really don’t even know our partners. And we’re just winging it. We’re just thinking, well, this is just the way it is, right? And I’m just winging it. And maybe I think it’s, again, like, my partner’s fault. It’s not me. Brian Power [00:15:39]: It’s. It must be that I have the wrong partner. And that’s not always the case. A lot of times. It’s just we. We do have a good partner. It’s just that we both maybe have some wounds, some issues to kind of straighten out before we can learn how to have a really good relationship together. So. Lora Cheadle [00:15:53]: Yeah, and it’s. Again, it’s nobody’s fault. It’s. It’s just something that you can work on together. And I appreciate how you said, too. I wish I would have known. Why didn’t I know these things? Because so many of my clients that I work with personally, you know, will say, if I only knew this before, maybe the infidelity wouldn’t have happened. If I only knew this before, we could have done this. Lora Cheadle [00:16:16]: And it’s so ironic, too, because whenever I have been in a sick situation or a circumstance where I am trying to teach people proactively, I don’t know what it is, but as humans, oftentimes we don’t want to proactively learn things because we think, I’m smart enough, I can figure it out. I have a good enough relationship that wouldn’t impact me or us, so I don’t need to learn these things because I’m immune. And then it happens, and then we’re like, oh, no, none of us are immune. Brian Power [00:16:48]: Yeah, I wish I could help everybody, you know, get there. You’ll get this information before it falls apart. But you’re so right, unfortunately, sometimes, in fact, most cases, we all think we’re okay until we’re not. And I always say everybody’s secure until the crap hits the fan. You know, once. Once things really start going south, that’s when we’re exposed. That’s when our weaknesses and everything else starts to come out. We go oh, wait a second. Brian Power [00:17:12]: Maybe I don’t have all the answers. Lora Cheadle [00:17:14]: Yeah. Brian Power [00:17:14]: And that’s often when we’re the most willing to learn and maybe make those changes, which is why I call my coaching pract as my relationship fail or even make your relationship fail. It’s not that we’re looking for failure. It’s just that we accept that sometimes that failure is the greatest opportunity for change, for learning, for growth, and then we use that to launch us into something that is truly amazing, that that can also be on the other side, the biggest blessing of your life. And it’s just unfortunate. Sometimes it takes that crash, you know? Lora Cheadle [00:17:42]: Right. Brian Power [00:17:43]: Yeah. Lora Cheadle [00:17:44]: Right. No, I. I’m with you. I mean, with my husband’s infidelity and. Same thing like you. And like many of the people on. One of the partners has had a very traumatic childhood, and we can’t just be like, okay, yeah, I put that behind me, and it didn’t impact me. And now I’m just gonna go have a healthy, happy relationship. Lora Cheadle [00:18:03]: That crash is not fun. But I am grateful, very grateful for the journey. I’m not grateful for the pain. I’m not grateful for any of that, but I am grateful for the journey because I’m a better person, my husband’s a better person, and our relationship is a lot better because of that journey. So, yeah, you’ve got some pillars that can really help people move from that failure, frustration into competency into a healthier, happier relationship. I’d love to talk about some of those. Brian Power [00:18:41]: Yeah. Yeah. So. So I learned attachment theory from Thais Gibson. T H A I S. Her last name’s Gibson. She’s out of Canada, and she was. She’s the one. Brian Power [00:18:49]: I came across a really great podcast that she had done on the Mel Robbins show that really talked about attachment theory. That’s. That was about a month before I got kicked out of the house, if you will. And I was fascinated by that. And I just continued to delve into her work, and she created what’s called Integrated Attachment Theory, which really is a program designed to. Not just so that we know what our attachment style is, because that’s helpful, but it’s not going to solve everything. But the six pillars of Integrated Attachment Theory begins to move us from the unhealthy attachment styles closer and closer to the healthy attachment style, the more secure attachment style. And I love that work. Brian Power [00:19:22]: And that’s where I got really hooked in. And so essentially, you have six pillars. Number one, you have those core wounds. Those are the subconscious thoughts and behaviors that we’re thinking about, you know, those subconscious thoughts, excuse me, that are driving the subconscious into these unhealthy behaviors. So we’ve got to really work on those, begin to figure out what they are, begin to heal those. And there’s some things we can do to do that. Number two is our needs, really understanding our needs. A lot of times, infidelity is caused because we don’t know how to convey our needs. Brian Power [00:19:47]: What do we truly need? And we don’t know how to communicate that. And so sometimes a partner will go outside of the relationship to get the needs met because they don’t know how to do it inside the relationship. And so that’s painful and hurt, but we’ve got to learn that. We’ve got to figure that how do we get our needs met mostly on our own, too? We don’t want to outsource our needs too much. We want to be able to, you know, get our needs met on our own so that now we’re in control and we can really feel fulfilled every day. It’s pretty good. Number three is our emotions. How do I deal with my emotions? How do I get emotional control? And then number two, how do I really learn from my emotions? What are my emotions telling me? So if I’m really emotionally triggered, let’s say, off of something that’s really pretty minute, it’s really something minor. Brian Power [00:20:25]: It shouldn’t be triggering the emotion that much. Usually that’s because there’s a subconscious wound that’s being touched, if you will, that’s kind of sending us off the rails into this emotional state because of. Again, mostly because of a subconscious wound. So we got to use our emotions for something good, for information, and learn from that, and then also learn how to kind of control that a little bit. Number four is our boundaries. How do we set boundaries? Good, healthy boundaries. What are they? How do we convey those? How do we make sure that people are listening to our boundaries and, you know, observing them a little bit? And then, you know, how do we do that and set those? That was something new for me as well. Right. Brian Power [00:20:57]: So very important. Number five was a huge one for my wife and I. It’s communication. I think it’s a big one for most of us. How do we communicate in a way that actually moves the needle, you know, because in the past, my wife would always talk to me, and she would be like, you know, trying to tell me stuff, and I would be listening to defend myself, because I thought she was attacking me. I always felt like she was attacking me right so now I’m listening to tell her all the reasons she’s wrong, which you don’t want to do. That is not enough. That is, I don’t advise anybody do that with their spouse. Brian Power [00:21:25]: Not a healthy communication style. And I would be jumping over her a lot, right? So she’d be talking, I’d be trying to interrupt her mid sentence. So she was getting really frustrated with that. And again, it’s coming from a place of wounded. I didn’t realize how bad I was doing that. But again, and we do it totally different now, where we listen to each other. I give her five or ten minutes to talk. I completely let her go without interrupting at all. Brian Power [00:21:46]: We usually look each other right in the eyes when we do this. And now I’m listening to understand her. I want to know this woman. I love her. I want to know her thoughts, her heart, her idea. I want to know this woman. Now I’m listening to really get to know her. And then when she’s done, I get to go and I get five or 10 minutes and I get to express myself. Brian Power [00:22:06]: And she’s listening to me to understand. And what a different way to do that. What a game changer in the ability to move the needle when you’re communicating like that. So to me, that was one of my favorite things that we’ve learned and we do differently. Last but not least is our behaviors. How do we change our behaviors on a regular basis that begin to kind of, again, show that I’m a man of honor, a man of, you know, I can control my emotions and not fly off the handle and do all these things that are just detrimental. I’m acting in a way that’s more healthy and good. So those six pillars, to me have really been game changer. Brian Power [00:22:37]: And those are the tools that I didn’t have before. You know, again, I came from a dysfunctional family. I didn’t see this stuff. Nobody showed me how to do this. And so without really going to school for this, if you will, I was hoping to have them, but I didn’t have them. So if you don’t have them, it’s okay. Most of us don’t. We’ve got to learn these tools. Brian Power [00:22:55]: And as we learn them, we put that little tool in our belt. And every time we have situations in the relationship, I know I can go to that tool, pull it out and say, hey, this is the tool I need to fix this situation. And it really does make the relationship just a thousand times differently and. And much more fulfilling, much more connected, and just A much more positive experience on a daily basis. So. Lora Cheadle [00:23:14]: Right, okay, let’s break those down. Brian Power [00:23:16]: It’s a lot to swallow, I know. Lora Cheadle [00:23:17]: Yeah, exactly. And let’s go through each one. And what I want to do is kind of pull from either sometimes my personal situation, sometimes some client situations, just so listeners can really see how, like, like, oh, I see how this might work. Okay. So the number one would that was, I believe, the wounding, or was that the subconscious? Brian Power [00:23:39]: Yeah, core wounds. Core wounds, which is really the subconscious. That, that is those wounds of, you know, I will be betrayed. I’m not good enough. I’m, you know, I, I don’t, I’m gonna be alone for the rest of my life. All these, you know, stories we’re telling ourselves subconsciously. Lora Cheadle [00:23:51]: Yeah, okay. I, I, I love that. And yes, there’s so much around core wounds because oftentimes we don’t really recognize that that is a core wound. And how do people start really exploring what am I afraid of? What, what could be a core wound? What is the first step at really getting curious about that? Brian Power [00:24:22]: So that goes to the emotions, right? So your behaviors lead to your thoughts, your thoughts lead to your emotions, your emotions lead to your actions. So we just have to backtrack that a little bit. So if I’m feeling highly emotional, let’s just say I’m really afraid. I’m, I’m afraid right now. And, and I’m at a level 10 where it’s like, I shouldn’t be that afraid. I’m afraid. My, my. So then what’s my thought? What’s my thought behind it was, well, I think my spouse is going to leave me. Brian Power [00:24:44]: Oh, well, why, why are we thinking that my spouse is going to leave me? Is that true? You know, we have to ask ourselves, is that true that my spouse is going to leave me? Probably not, right? You know, do I 100 know that my spouse is going to leave me? No. Okay, so why am I, I, you know, now having this emotion of a fear about him leaving? But the core belief is, well, maybe I’m not good, and I’m not good enough. They’re gonna leave me because I’m not good enough. And now it’s leading to that emotion of fear, which is now causing me to latch on. And now I’m kind of, you know, I mean, so this is what’s driving our stuff. So we have to just backtrack based off our emotions. Think about, what am I really thinking here? What is my real thought behind this emotion right now that I’m Thinking, you know, I always say, like, if my wife is, you know, leaves the cup on the table, let’s say she doesn’t put in the dishwasher. And it triggers me where I’m like, oh, my God, the cup is on the table. Brian Power [00:25:31]: Is it really about the cup on the table? No, no. But if I backtrack that, I may think, well, I feel disrespected. Maybe, maybe, you know, I feel unheard. You know, maybe there’s something else going on that’s causing me to feel angry about that. Okay, yeah, she’s not listening. Maybe I feel unheard. I feel disrespected. I feel unloved. Brian Power [00:25:47]: You know, those are the things maybe I’m telling myself that’s causing the problem. So that’s all we have to do. We have to begin that processing and kind of thinking about that and uncovering what that wound is, and then we can work on the wound to say, okay, yeah, wait a second. Am I really unlovable? Am I really going to be alone for the rest of my life? That’s not true. Right. So then we could kind of work on healing those wounds. Yeah. Lora Cheadle [00:26:08]: Yeah. And now I’m going to get personal because I think it’s really good to have the application. It’s interesting in my situation, and I know a lot of my listeners, clients have a very similar situation. My husband had a horrible childhood. He was betrayed over and over by his parents. He was not given food. He was not given shelter. He was not given emotional safety. Lora Cheadle [00:26:34]: He was not given, like, any of those things. So then we get this healthy, happy marriage. I had a very functional childhood, so we’re very different. And he sees is my way of growing up. And he says, I love that. I want that. This is who I want to become. I want my family to be more like your family growing up. Lora Cheadle [00:26:57]: This is wonderful. So I think how easy we’ll just teach him and he’ll just be fine. But there’s that subconscious belief that things aren’t safe. There’s that subconscious thing, belief that this is going to get taken away, that this is. Is fake, that Laura is playing me. He said so many times he. He cheated when times were good because he didn’t trust it. He did not trust. Lora Cheadle [00:27:26]: He thought I was playing him. He thought I was faking it and that I was on the verge of leaving. And then he would cheat when times were bad because, oh, my gosh, this is it. It’s all falling apart. Times were bad. Brian Power [00:27:38]: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Lora Cheadle [00:27:40]: So, okay, when are you going to Be faithful. And it was that wound, it was that lens that I am never safe. I’m not safe ever. It wasn’t until he could really start identifying, okay, this is my wound. I believe I am never going to be safe because I never was safe. Brian Power [00:28:03]: So that is probably the number one wound for fearful avoidance is that betrayal wound, and that is a big one. So it sounds like he’s probably that fearful avoidant with that big betrayal wound style and that. And again, that causes. Again, causes us to do very unhealthy things, and we’re acting out of. Not because he wanted to. He’s just subconsciously here. That that betrayal wound was just being triggered. And. Brian Power [00:28:26]: And when it got triggered for him, that’s. That was what he did to kind of cope with that. Right. So, yeah, terrible, terrible. But once you can know that, you can start to move the needle and heal that, then you can stop that unhealthy behavior and ultimately get to a good point where you’re having a great relationship because, yeah, that’s a tough one. Lora Cheadle [00:28:42]: Yeah. Yeah. And what I want to point out to listeners, too, it’s not that, oh, poor guy, he had a wound. Everything is absolved. Leign [00:28:50]: Yay. Lora Cheadle [00:28:50]: Go ahead. But it does help me lean into compassion. It does help me lean into understanding. It’s not that you are a jerk and you’re never going to change, and I bet you’re a narcissist, too, and, oh, my God, it doesn’t activate me. It makes me go, oh, that’s really sad. But that makes sense. And when I can say those words, that makes sense. Then I can walk myself forward. Lora Cheadle [00:29:22]: So moving forward, what is that second pillar? Brian Power [00:29:25]: The second pillar is the needs. Yeah. Just trying to learn about our needs on a regular basis. What do I need in my life to really be happy on a. On a daily basis? And, yeah, just understanding that a little bit more. And again, trying to learn how to fulfill that as much as possible on my own, you know, with the career that I choose or, you know, the people I choose to surround myself with, you know. Yeah. Just different things that I can do that kind of, you know, gives me a little bit more control than always relying on my spouse to try to fulfill those needs, you know? Lora Cheadle [00:29:51]: Right, right. So using my example, the need. Need for safety. My husband had a huge need for safety because he was so wounded. He needed safety again. Is it my job to create saf? Not necessarily. Like, I can be cognizant of the fact that this is his wound and I can help, but how can he create safety in his body. How can he create safety in relationships? How can he create physical, emotional, financial, whatever kind of safety? But again, being able to identify what is that need. Lora Cheadle [00:30:24]: I don’t think before our infidelity experience he would have ever said, I need safety because he’s a big, strong man who can handle it all. Brian Power [00:30:32]: Right? Right? Yeah. Yeah, we’re big, tough guys until we’re not. Until we’re broken and realize, yeah, we’re not. We’re not all that tough. After all, we do. We do want that beautiful relationship that we’re craving on the inside, like little boys, you know, we just. We want that spouse. We want to be the good husbands. Brian Power [00:30:47]: You know, we want to do that, but we don’t know how. Especially when we, like your husband and I, also been through kind of similar. Right. Very dysfunctional type childhood where we just have these issues that we don’t even understand. But, yeah, you have to learn, you know, how do I create that safety? For the most part, you’re right. He’s got to learn to do that on his own. He’s got to heal that wound and understand that, you know, the child that he had was dysfunctional. And it wasn’t true. Brian Power [00:31:08]: And it’s not. Everybody’s not like that. And. And so, you know, how do I begin to kind of look at that and then look at you as a wonderful spouse? Like, are you giving him reasons to believe that you’re actually going to betray him? And you start to piece. Piece all this together. There’s some good exercises we can do that. Begin to retrain the subconscious that. Start to move the needle with that. Brian Power [00:31:25]: And, you know, because a lot of this, again, is subconscious. So if we can learn to, you know, move the needle subconsciously, you know, train our brain to believe that we are. We’re not going to be betrayed. That becomes more autopilot, and now we start to begin feeling a little bit more safe, and we start to realize that, you know, what the world isn’t. That crazy, chaotic experience I had as a child. Maybe there is some safety around here and I can start to relax. It takes some time, but you can certainly move the needle into that direction. But the awareness of that is. Brian Power [00:31:53]: Is first and foremost. God bless you, too. That’s. That was a big awareness on your part to be able to kind of deal with that, accept that, and really be compassionate. Because sometimes even with that, that knowledge, it’s not always easy to still accept that and be compassionate and actually be willing to kind of work with that. So that. That’s a really beautiful thing that you did. Yeah. Lora Cheadle [00:32:10]: Right, right. And, you know, I just have to name this because. Thank you for saying that. And it doesn’t always work that way, because sometimes couples get to the point of, okay, I understand this. I understand the wound and then the need. Instead of owning the need. What I see a lot of betraying spouses do is, I need you to. And it’s like, no, no, no, it’s not. Lora Cheadle [00:32:34]: I need you to show. It’s. It’s. What is my need? Leign [00:32:39]: You know what? I. Lora Cheadle [00:32:40]: There’s a fine line between I need you versus this is what I need. And I’m hoping we can create this together. Brian Power [00:32:49]: The one thing I’ve learned through all this is we cannot control our partners. All right? And the more we try to control our partners, the worse that’s going to get. So the best thing we can do is learn that we’re only in control of ourselves. Lora Cheadle [00:32:59]: Yeah. Brian Power [00:32:59]: So how do I change myself? How do I learn to meet my own needs? How do I. What do I need in this experience? And how do I kind of work through this process? And if my spouse can’t show up in a way that is healthier or isn’t willing to work on that and ultimately. Ultimately move the needle with me, then sometimes that relationship does end. If you’re. If your husband didn’t decide, hey, I want to get help. I am trying to fix this. I do want to get better. You might have said, eventually, how can I live with that? Right. Brian Power [00:33:25]: So there is that point. Right. But you can’t control him. You can’t force him to get better. You can’t speed up the process. Process. Sometimes you can only say, you know, I can do what I can do here, and then show up that way, and then hope that your husband changes with you, hope that the love you show and some of the kindness maybe also works in his favor, begins to help him realize certain things. And ultimately, that’s all we can do. Brian Power [00:33:45]: But exactly. We cannot force that relationship. And that was the one thing I learned through this, actually, the way I got my wife back was to let it go. Because when we were in that restraining order, time, I had no idea if she was with somebody else. I had no idea. In fact, I got to the point where I just assumed she was. Was. And I accepted that. Brian Power [00:34:01]: And I said, but it finally hit me that I was okay with that. I was okay if she was with somebody else and she was happy. Because when we were together, I used to tell her I’d Rather you be with somebody else and be happy than to be with me and be miserable. But now I had to show. Now I had to show that that was true. Could I. Did I really mean that? Right. Because if that’s true and she was truly happy with somebody else, could I actually truly be happy for her? And it took me a few months to really get there where I was like, yeah, you know what? I’m happy for her if she’s happy. Brian Power [00:34:26]: Good God bless her, right? I’m gonna be okay. I trust myself. I’ll be okay. I’m a big boy. I’m gonna move on, all that stuff. And that’s where I was able to let that go. And that’s really what helped bring it back. So letting it go is. Brian Power [00:34:37]: And now we choose each other every day. My wife chooses me. I choose her. We don’t have to be together. We can choose to start. We can choose to do whatever we want. We’re big people, but we choose each other because we love each other. We know how to work together. Brian Power [00:34:48]: We have a good life together. We enjoy our time together. Like, why would we want to do anything? Why would we want to move on? Lora Cheadle [00:34:54]: Exactly. Brian Power [00:34:55]: We create the environment that it’s harder to move on because it’s already pretty good here. Why would you want to. So. So that’s the key, right? But yeah, exactly. Lora Cheadle [00:35:02]: Exactly. Yep. Okay, so then, what is that next step? Brian Power [00:35:05]: Azzy emotions. Yeah, it’s really just learning again, tapping into the emotions and really kind of doing a little bit of emotional processing. What’s going on here? What are the thoughts I have? Kind of works with that needs thing as well. Like, again, yeah, what. What is going on here? Why am I triggered? What are the thoughts that I’m having? And backtracking that. What’s the thoughts? And then what’s my core belief here? What is the core belief that’s causing me to have these triggered emotions? And then just learning how to, you know, sometimes just doing some coping mechanisms where, you know, if I got a little bit triggered, I, you know, now if I, you know, triggered at all. First of all, I always say, do not have a conversation with your spouse when you’re triggered. You want to excuse yourself. Brian Power [00:35:39]: You want to say, hey, this is not a great time. I definitely want to revisit this again sometime soon. But right now, I just want to go for a little walk. I want to go for a little hike, get out the door, get yourself emotionally regulated. And so sometimes that’s the best we could do. Is first step is Just get a little bit of emotionally regulation, whether that’s going to the gym, hiking, you know, whatever it is, yoga, whatever kind of works for you. Prayer, meditation. Get to a point where you’re a little bit more emotionally, you know, regulated. Brian Power [00:36:03]: But then also again, ask yourself, why was I triggered? What was the thought that was really causing my. My anger and frustration or whatever that was? And on the good side, too, it’s not just the, you know, the anger and fear. Leign [00:36:16]: What. Brian Power [00:36:16]: What made me happy there? Why was I so excited? What was so good about that? You know, what was the thought and belief I had behind that? Because we want to now get more of those things going in our lives. Right. So if backtrack that a little bit and realize what made me happy. Oh, I felt connected. I felt loved, you know. Okay, that’s pretty exciting. So how do I do that? That’s the emotions really getting into that. Lora Cheadle [00:36:35]: Yeah. And I appreciate, too, that you said some of the positive things, because that’s one of the things that I do when I work with couples. And the betraying partner, too. What was it about the affair partner that was positive? And oh, my goodness, that can feel so triggering for people because as the betrayed partner, it’s like, oh, my God, they’re better than was. But when you can actually start breaking it down, what was it about this affair partner? What was the positive thing that kept you going? And it’s interesting. And it ends up being healing more often than not, because what’s healing is this person doesn’t really know me. And I can pretend and they can validate me because they don’t really know who I am. And they can do this for me because they don’t really know who I am. Lora Cheadle [00:37:25]: So it’s. It’s enlightening because it shows so often how it’s not real. It’s an illusion. The betrayer is leaning into an illusion because they want that illusion, because they don’t want to be seen, because it feels scary to be seen, or they are so afraid of rejection. So it’s. Yeah, it’s triggering, but it’s also really enlightening to understand why was I enthralled with that person? Oh, yeah. Because I could pretend. Brian Power [00:38:01]: Yeah, you’re so right. That’s great. Lora Cheadle [00:38:03]: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So understanding those emotions. Yeah, it helps you know yourself better. And again, it creates better understanding. So is the next one boundaries or what was the. Brian Power [00:38:16]: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So boundaries. You know, like, for me, you know, if you’re an anxious preoccupied where you have that, you know, Connection is always the most important and everything. A lot of times you’re boundaryless. You know, you’re like a doormat sometimes, where you’ll let people walk in you. So long as you’re in that relationship, as long as you have the connection, it doesn’t matter. You can walk on. Walk on me, treat me like crap, whatever, as long as we’re still together. Brian Power [00:38:37]: And that’s where we got to be careful, right? So, so how do I set boundaries that are healthy? How do I have boundaries at all? And then, you know, on the flip side, sometimes, like, the dismissive avoidant might be, like, set extreme boundaries or something, you know, something really kind of where it’s, again, not. Not conducive to a good relationship. So how do you find that middle ground where you have good, healthy boundaries that are reasonable? And then how do you, you know, let your spouse know this is important to me, you know, and just keeping it simple, but also kind of knowing, like, these are the rules a little bit, so that, you know the rules. I always say it’s like. It’s like the, you know, the boundaries are like the fence around the house, and we’re the house, okay? So the. The fence protects the house a little bit. So if we don’t have any boundaries, you have no fence protecting the house else. But if we have big walls, so big that nobody can get in, we don’t have any connection. Brian Power [00:39:20]: Nobody can get in. So we have to find the boundaries that are just about right and kind of work in that regard. And. And when we do that, it makes the relationship go a little bit better, you know, And. And I think it’s important you have some of the unspoken boundaries, maybe, but I think for the most part, it’s great to speak your boundaries and really kind of set the parameters. What do I really expect in this relationship so that, you know, it’s not just, you know, we think we’re on the same page, because a lot of times, you know, we think we’re on the same page, but we may have totally different ideas of what that really is. So it’s important to kind of. Of, you know, let the person know, like, this is important to me. Brian Power [00:39:49]: This is what I need, and then see what they say and say. Yeah, I agree. I’m on page with that. You know, I’m on, you know, we can do that. So, yeah, very important. Lora Cheadle [00:39:56]: So I would love your thoughts on this, because this is something that so many betraying partners will say. I confess this relationship about this affair. I have totally told you everything. And now we will never speak about it again. It’s like, okay, I understand that you’re kind of trying to set a boundary, but. But that’s not realistic. You cannot just confess to this big thing and then say, and it’s over. We can never speak about it again. Lora Cheadle [00:40:23]: What are your thoughts on communicating boundaries and how to have a meaningful, healthy conversation around, like, that’s not realistic. And I can honor this part about you, but here are my needs and how do we find that middle ground between. You do not have the right to interrogate me 247 over this affair, and I don’t have the right to say we can never mention it again. Brian Power [00:40:49]: Yeah, that’s. That’s, that’s really great. That’s a tough one, obviously. Right? But. But that’s exactly right. Yeah. Because sometimes, right, you just. One person wants to say, okay, we talked about it. Brian Power [00:40:57]: Let’s never talk about it again. And the other person still has a lot of pain and hurt and may need to talk about that a lot more even. But yeah, also, again, not wanting to throw it in the person’s face every day, because that’s not healthy either. So you definitely got to work on that. Find the middle ground. Obviously, somebody who, who’s just wants to move past that has to be able to say, okay, my partner is hurting. My partner may need more communication on this, and it may, it may feel crappy for me to have to deal with that and have to be able to say, like, okay, I don’t want to have to bring this up over and over again, but it is something that my, my own actions did bring about. Even if it’s coming from a wounded place, I still did some things that are causing my partner some pain. Brian Power [00:41:34]: So how do I work with that on a level that gets that person to a comfortable spot where they’re feeling better about it, they’re finally able to let it go. And again, on the flip side, yeah, you know, maybe not throwing in the person’s face every day, and that’s something we could say, look, I don’t want to do that. Right. Obviously, I don’t want to throw it in your face. I’m not trying to hurt you back. Right. I’m not trying to, you know. You know, you know, I mean, I’m not trying to hurt you back, but. Brian Power [00:41:54]: But at the same time, I want to heal. And for me to heal, I am going to need to be able to discuss this, whatever that is. Right. This is what I need. I may need to discuss it once A week for a little while or whatever it is that we can kind of get to that point. And now we set some reasonable parameters about how we’re going to navigate this really horrible experience. And so. But you have to meet in the middle. Brian Power [00:42:13]: And that’s the thing. You know, these things take compromise, which is a C word that we don’t typically like. Leign [00:42:18]: Right. Brian Power [00:42:19]: Compromise. But we have to meet in the middle, and that’s what love is. Sometimes we sacrifice a little bit for the benefit of the relationship, the partnership, and say, okay, I love this person, I care about them. I’m going to go ahead and compromise a little bit. So let’s meet in the middle so that it may hurt us both a little bit to do that. Leign [00:42:34]: That. Brian Power [00:42:34]: But that’s usually a good compromise. Right? So. But yeah, but, but that’s more balance and then again. Yeah, not setting the extreme stuff. Yeah. Lora Cheadle [00:42:42]: Okay. So what comes after boundaries then is. Brian Power [00:42:46]: Communication, which is the big one for me. You know, I think I mentioned a little bit before, you know, yes, my wife and I would have these communications and she would be trying to discuss maybe an important subject with me and. Or something I did or something about our kids and parenting. And I. And I would just listen to be like, you’re wrong. That’s not true. Always listening to defend. I was notorious for jumping on top of. Brian Power [00:43:06]: So she’d be mid sentence and I’d be telling her something that’s wrong. And she would just be so frustrated and yell at me and be like, you’re not listening to me. And I would literally be like, of course I am. I hear every single word. Because in my mind, I needed to defend exactly what you were saying. So. But that was the listening. I was kind of, you know, again, not listening to understand. Brian Power [00:43:26]: And that’s really what she was trying to say is like, you’re not listening to understand me. And that’s what she needed. She needed to be understood and heard. Heard. And so that’s what we do differently. We definitely have a different approach. I, like I said, we like to sit face to face. And this was. Brian Power [00:43:39]: Our therapist taught me this. And it was a great practice. And we still do it. Look eye to eye. She gets five or ten minutes. Let’s talk about it. You, I want to hear your thoughts on this subject. I want to hear everything you’re thinking, your emotions, your feelings on that. Brian Power [00:43:51]: And I just don’t interrupt her. And I just literally listen and I say, okay, what is she trying to teach me? Or what is. What can I learn from her? Right. What can I. How can I understand this woman better? You know, what’s. What’s behind her thoughts, what’s behind. And a lot of times it’s really great because you start to hear something that, oh, that. I didn’t think of it that way. Brian Power [00:44:06]: That’s a really interesting perspective. And sometimes you can expand on that after the conversation. You can even go back and say, like, hey, you. You mentioned this, right? That was kind of different. Can we talk about that some more? And then again, flip side is, I’ll get my five or ten minutes to go, and we may do that back and forth a few times. And, and, and now it just moves the needle because now we’re both feeling a lot more heard, a lot more understood. We’re not operating from that triggered state where we’re, you know, arguing and nobody’s really listening to each other in that really awful emotional state. Like, it’s. Brian Power [00:44:36]: I always say, definitely do not, you know, try to talk about these subjects when you’re emotionally, you know, triggered when you’re a heightened emotional state, you definitely got to back that off and say, hey. But the way to do that is not just, don’t just walk out of the room. Don’t just walk out of the room. That’s not a healthy way to do that. You have to be able to look at your partner and say, you know what? I’m feeling a little off right now. I really. This is obviously a very important subject. I want to discuss this with you again. Brian Power [00:44:59]: Can we revisit this in a little while? Maybe an hour or two, or maybe even give me a day or two and let’s get back to this. But I’ve got to. I’ve got to just get myself into a better state before we can do that and have that conversation that’s going to let your partner know that you still care. Otherwise, if you just walk out of the room, they’re like, oh, this person doesn’t even care about the. Lora Cheadle [00:45:15]: Right. Brian Power [00:45:15]: Never mind. Yeah, right. They just don’t even care about, you know, getting through this thing. So it’s important. Again, that’s a bit of a communication thing. How do we do that in a way that, again, starts to be able to really, really, you know, let our partner know that we’re listening, we’re hearing them. These things are important. The relationship is important. Brian Power [00:45:30]: And. And that just makes things a lot. They’re also learning to take ownership of your feelings and your. And doing more I statements. This is something I’m still working on is like, you Know, using the I statements instead of, like, blaming the other person. Like, you never do the laundry. It’s like, no. Rather than saying, you know what? When you do the laundry, I really feel loved. Brian Power [00:45:47]: I really feel appreciated. I really feel, you know, that’s going to move the needle a lot more than, you know, just pointing your finger at somebody and telling that they never do this or never do that. And that’s, again, usually come up coming from a wounded spot. Right. Because I feel under. I feel unloved, I feel unwanted, I feel unheard, whatever. Disrespected. Lora Cheadle [00:46:04]: Right. Brian Power [00:46:05]: Lashing out. But again, that’s not a healthy way. Yeah, go ahead. Lora Cheadle [00:46:09]: Exactly. I’ve got. I’ve got a question for you. As far as your deep internal experience. How did it feel to move from someone who listened to defend to somebody who is listening to understand? Because it’s my guess that that didn’t happen overnight and that the first time you listened to her for five or 10 minutes, it wasn’t like angel sang and you went, oh, my gosh, this is incredible. It’s my guess that you had to, like, sit on your hand, so to. Brian Power [00:46:35]: Speak, and be like, you must have been there. You must have been there. Yeah, that’s a. It’s a tough practice. I mean, it’s definitely something that takes. Takes practice. And so. And even the first couple times you do it, it’s not saying that it won’t still get your emojis a little bit. Brian Power [00:46:48]: We can still disagree here. And that’s the whole thing is like, we may still disagree. And so that gets a little bit emotional. But at that point, if it does start to get there, it’s still okay to say, hey, wait a second. Let’s put this on the shelf. Let’s come back to this again. So just. Just remember that it doesn’t have to be solved at that very moment. Brian Power [00:47:04]: The key is to make sure that you’re doing it in a way that is starting to move the needle a little bit. But absolutely, absolutely. Very challenging the first few times to really do this. But what I started to do is pretty quickly. Like, after you do it a few times, and you start to realize, I feel more heard. I actually feel pretty good about this. I feel like she heard me, and she feels like I heard her. And all of a sudden, like, you’re having a really good rest of the day rather than both going to separate rooms and everything else. Brian Power [00:47:33]: This is a lot more fun to do it this way than it is to do it the other way. And so, so why not continue this process? Why not continue to, like, get better at that and continue to practice, you know, something that actually works? And so. Yeah, but it’s funny. You’re so right. That is. That is something that definitely, for me especially, I was so bad at. I was like, whoa. For sure. Lora Cheadle [00:47:52]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Brian Power [00:47:54]: It’s. Lora Cheadle [00:47:54]: It’s tough. It’s a process. Well, I. I’ve enjoyed this conversation. I. I love the six pillars. I love the way they all kind of intersect and flow. And thank you also for just naming that. Lora Cheadle [00:48:06]: It is tough and it is a process, and it’s not like, oh, hey, we learned it, and now it’s all fixed. So my challenge really is for all of the listeners, is to take this information, to sit with it, to think about it, and to maybe pick one nugget to implement. You know, maybe it’s. Let’s. Let’s do this one practice and implement that today and just experiment and play with it. Brian Power [00:48:30]: It. Lora Cheadle [00:48:31]: And then where can listeners learn more about you and just go a little bit deeper? Brian Power [00:48:37]: Yeah. Yeah. If you want to, you know, connect with me at all, please visit my website, my relationship fail.com, and you can learn a little bit more about the attachment styles. You can take the attachment style quiz and learn what your attachment style is. It’s a fun thing to do that’s free to do as well on my website, I also challenge everybody. You know, join the personal development school on my website. That’s Tyce Gibson School. Lots of a treasure trove of really great videos and workbooks that we can get into. Brian Power [00:49:02]: And if you decide you want to do that on your own, by all means, if you decide you want a coach and somebody to help you through that, that’s where I come in. Be happy to coach you. Irregardless, go to a website. I’m happy to give you a free relationship strategy session. If you’re struggling right now, you know, go to my website, book a call with me. Be happy to hear your side, see what’s going on, and see if we can help point you in the right direction. And I’d be happy to do that for anybody that goes to my website, my relationship failed dot com. Lora Cheadle [00:49:26]: Perfect. Well, thank you so much. And, listeners, I hope you got something out of this. Leign [00:49:31]: One of the things that I want to add here, especially for anyone listening who’s dealing with betrayal, is that attachment theory doesn’t just explain why you react the way that you do. It explains why inside alone doesn’t stop the reaction. You can understand your attachment style, your Partner’s attachment style. You can name it, you can even explain it really clearly. Like, I am this way because I am anxious. Attachment. He is this way because he’s avoidant, whatever it is. And you can still find yourself spiraling at 2am rereading text, replaying conversations or panicking when your partner is quiet. Leign [00:50:25]: Now, that doesn’t mean that attachment theory has failed you. What it means is your nervous system is still trying to find safety in real time. Betrayal hits attachment at its core. I don’t know if you’ve had this situation, but it’s one of those things where it’s like, well, this is why I say betrayal uncovers the truth. Because going through a betrayal uncovers the truth about all of your unhealed wounds. Going through a betrayal uncovers the truth about all of your partner’s unhealed wounds. And betrayal uncovers the truth about the cataclysmic way that your unhealed wounds and their unhealed wounds come together and co create this disaster. Now, I know you know me, so I know I don’t have to say this, but I am not excusing betrayal. Leign [00:51:27]: I am not saying, well, it’s okay because there were wounds. It’s never okay. There’s a difference between explaining it and understanding it and just absolving somebody from it. And no, I’m not into just absolving somebody from it. But I also want to be realistic that so many good men cheat. There are many good men out there who are wounded and they cheat. And they’re not bad people. They are not bad people. Leign [00:52:03]: They are good people who have done. Done horrible, awful, damaging things, but they’re not bad people. And I think that you have probably listening to me enough to know that there’s that distinction. But I always feel compelled to say it just one more time anyway. Betrayal hits attachment at its core because your primary attachment figure, your partner, the person your nervous system relied on for safety, suddenly after betrayal becomes the source of threat. And this creates a very specific kind of distress. Lora Cheadle [00:52:47]: The kind of distress that looks like. Leign [00:52:49]: Obsessive thoughts, emotional whiplash, panic that suddenly rises up out of nowhere, a constant need for reassurance. Sometimes that looks like hysterical bonding. Lora Cheadle [00:53:02]: Sometimes that looks like, I need your phone all the time and I need. Leign [00:53:05]: To know exactly where you are all the time. Or sometimes it looks like completely shutting down. This is why people say things like, I know better, so why am I still like this? That’s because attachment wounds don’t resolve through logic. They resolve through felt safety again and Again in small moments. And this is why traditional support falls short. This is where a lot of well intentioned work misses the mark. Weekly therapy can be incredibly valuable, but things like attachment, panic and betrayal trauma don’t wait for Tuesdays at 3 o’ clock when you’ve got your next session. Books, podcasts, downloads, they bring insight. Leign [00:53:58]: But insight doesn’t regulate your nervous system in the middle of a trigger. Attachment repair happens in the moment the system is activated, not just when you talk about it later. What most betrayed women need is not more information. What most betrayed women need is immediate grounding, reflection and co regulation when their spiral is happening. And that’s why I created my Betrayal Lifeline. Betrayal Lifeline is private. It’s on demand asynchronous coaching for men and women navigating betrayal recovery. Especially this kind of attachment based distress. Leign [00:54:53]: When panic hits, when your mind won’t stop spinning, when you’re about to send this text that you know later you’re going to regret, or when you’re just in one of those places where you’re questioning everything at once and you think you’ve made the most horrible mistakes and you don’t know how you’re going to see your way out of it. In times like that, you can message me privately and receive grounded, expert guidance that helps your nervous system settle in real time. In real time, in that moment. Not advice, not just think positive, but attuned, stabilizing support that helps you come back into safety and into clarity in that moment in your nervous system. Because what I see over and over is when women get support during activation, during their spiral, not days later, but right in the middle of the worst place. That’s when the attachment system, the nervous system, starts to trust again. That’s when women stop feeling crazy. They stop fearing their own reactions. Leign [00:56:06]: And slowly their system learns. Oh, oh, I can handle this. I’m not alone. I’m not crazy. Nobody can think their way out of this. I’ve got this now because this is so important, because this is exactly what. Lora Cheadle [00:56:22]: I wished I would have had when. Leign [00:56:24]: I was going through this. I have made this at a really low price point. It’s only $92 a month and it includes complimentary access to the Sanctuary of the Soul group program. So this Betrayal lifeline is specifically designed for women who don’t need any more theory. They need support when it actually matters. If you want more information or if you’re like, sign me up, I’m all in right now. Go to betrayal lifeline.com all one word betrayal. It’s a link right there. Leign [00:57:05]: You can sign up, you can cancel anytime, no questions asked. But we can talk. You can talk. You can reach out in the moment and get the help you need. Because this isn’t about fixing yourself. This isn’t about more more more more more. This is about having support when you’re nervous system needs it so you can relearn safety in the moment. Lora Cheadle [00:57:34]: Have an amazing week and as usual, always remember to flaunt exactly who you are. Because who you are is always more than enough. Tune in next time to flaunt, find your sparkle and create a life you love. After Infidelity or Betrayal With Laura Cheadle every Wednesday at 7am and 7pm Eastern Standard Time on syndicated DreamVision 7 radio network. Uncover the truth of what’s possible for you on the other side of betrayal and develop the skills and strategies necessary to embrace the future and flourish today. Download your free Betrayal Recovery toolkit@betrayalrecoveryguide.com.